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Can someone show harden this ?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by realonemo, Jan 13, 2020 at 1:00 PM.

  1. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    He needs 0 advice. He is at worst a top ten scorer in NBA history. Since his failure in San Antonio, we have never lost a series because Harden didn't score enough.

    The reason his delta falls is because calls are more difficult. How idiotic is it that the solution to this would be to take the shots which are least efficient AND net the least free throws?

    Define the problem. If you're here to indulge in your daily Harden trashing ritual, that's another thread.

    Are you really going to tell a guy that the thing that turned him from a 6th man to an MVP is THE PROBLEM?
     
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  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Durant had a .661 ts while Harden had a .567 ts in 2019 playoffs.
     
  3. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    You can find it in here:

    Undefeated against anyone but the Warriors for 3 years + most wins against them in the playoffs than anyone till the Raptors beat their corpse down.

    What is the goal? Greatly outperformed our talent in playoff wins, team scoring and individual scoring. You have the magic solution that none of the 29 other GM's and 400+ players have figured out?
     
    #63 Mathloom, Jan 14, 2020 at 10:30 AM
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 3:17 PM
  4. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    Top ten scorer out of 5,000+ players in NBA history. They're going to teach him how to score better. Incredible.

    Why don't you tell us how Barkley could have rebounded the ball better. I bet that's why he doesn't have a ring. :rolleyes:
     
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  5. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Look at who they played in the first round and look at who we played. Look at who he plays with and who Harden plays with(no that we have scrubs, Im just saying).
     
  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The Clippers who have good defenders that were pesky on Durant such as Bev and the Jazz who guarded behind Harden and let him have free reign in the mid range area.
     
  7. Amel

    Amel Contributing Member

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    Half of those two point opportunities he wasnt really wide open

    But yea, surely he could have taken some of them
     
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  8. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Cmon man, Jazz were number 2 in defensive rating, Clippers were 19, below average.

    Now,.....I have come around a tiny bit on the mid range. Strictly because is Harden can hit some....itlll open us up a bit more. I get ruthless efficiency but you know there are inflection points. I donno, I just there is a need to be so "rigid" .....though I dont think midrange really helps us the last two years. Agaisnt San Antonio...it might have.
     
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  9. Haymitch

    Haymitch Contributing Member

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    Just now looked in this thread, but as an fyi I am pretty sure that scoutwithbryan twitter account is just a troll account.

    But I encourage you all to test out this theory. Next time something happens in the NBA, ask yourself, "what would a dumbass think of this?" Then go to the scoutwithbryan account and I guarantee you he'll be saying that very thing.
     
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  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    His TS% in the playoffs last year was .567.

    In the regular season it was .616.
     
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  11. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    And MJ's playoff career average is .568

    He was more efficient than Durant and Kawhi in series versus the Warriors.

    A .594 TS% and .534 Efg% (scoring 35 ppg) is quite good against Warriors playoff defense geared (and practiced) to stop him.

    Jordan also never had a Efg% higher in the playoffs (compared to Harden's Warriors numbers), and only had 2 years with TS% higher (and just barely). Without checking, willing to bet he never had a better one against Pistons and Knicks, either.

    come on, man
     
    #71 heypartner, Jan 14, 2020 at 11:17 AM
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 11:24 AM
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  12. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    yep

    even KD who had the best midrange game paired with Cp3 wouldn't have beaten harden step klay and dray
     
  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    You can't compare efficiency numbers in different eras. Look at Jordan's efg% and ts% relative to his era.

    Also Jordan in the playoffs has a career .50 efg while Harden has a .48 efg with Jordan taking way fewer threes.

    Jordan's efficiency in the playoffs was considerably higher than his peers.

    Jordan also averaged 33 ppg in 13 playoff appearances. Harden averaged 35 for one series.
     
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  14. mike2k132

    mike2k132 Member

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    lol what u n that guy dont understand is the math....game to game. see you guys can pull it out n look deeper. the math is really over a full season. of course u gonna get those game. th3 point is u get way more wins then if u played the other way. u show me tops 10 bad games. its no wqy we even had a chance against gsw if we didnt play or style.....facts.
     
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  15. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    No, it's common sense. Especially given the CONTEXT, Harden was cold as ice and the chances of him hitting a contested 3 over a longer defender given how he'd be shooting over a wide open mid-range shot are much smaller. Especially if he understood it's a valuable shot that he used to hit. Don't act like Harden was not deadly from there in 2015 and could still very easily get back to that if he, coaches and Morey would get it through their thick skulls that come play-off time when things get tight, you need to take a shot like that. You just cannot pass that up. Also to make defenses worry about you maybe taking a shot from there.
     
  16. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    The point isn't whether Harden is better than playoff Jordan, of course not. The point is Harden was very efficient vs the Warriors last year.

    Y'all seem to say he wasn't. It's just not true.
     
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  17. BaselineFade

    BaselineFade Member
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    I just read somewhere recently that Sam Cassell was working out PG and Kawhi recently and had them shooting a ton of mid range jumpers. A reporter asked why. These are not efficient shots. Everyone knows this now. Cassell replied that these are championship closing shots.

    The theory that in the final minutes of playoff or championship games that a mid range or post up is a better than a contested 3 is up for debate I suppose. The mid range was a good closing so shot for CP in 17-18. It helped us defeat GS 3 times with KD. But the math says otherwise.

    I guess this is the year to ultimately put this theory to the test. If we face the Clippers or Lakers this postseason, it will be our 3's vs a fair amount of mid range 2's from the opposition during the final minutes of those games. If popular thought is that shooting any mid-range shots regardless of the situation is dumb in 2020 then we should easily defeat those teams in the playoffs.

    It will all come to a head this postseason without the Warriors being in the picture.
     
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  18. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    You just don't understand probability.

    Being cold as ice is an old folks' tale. The next shot is going in, whether it's 3 or mid range. Might as well take the one where Harden historically scores better. Even when he is open in mid range, he is better from contested 3. That's who he is.

    No one is worrying about a 36ppg scorer going 1 of 2 from mid range. No one cares. No one will change. It won't have any effect. It has never. There's no correlation between Harden shooting more mid range and him scoring more efficiently.

    Everything you're saying has been dug up and proven wrong. All you are saying is you BELIEVE that these things will happen although they have never happened consistently, even when left open.

    You are just nostalgic about this shot and think it must be a part of the game. The entire league is departing from that idea, more each season. We are by far the best team in the NBA for getting more out of our offensive talent. Harden is by far the best at shattering the ceiling of what's possibly offensively.

    Come playoff time, fewer mid range. Have to get more efficient. It's ridiculous to say you should take more mid range when it's harder to score. Think about it. You're saying: when it gets harder to scorer, take the wide open mid range although you are better at making the contested 3. For the love of god why? Do you have any evidence other than the feeling brought on by nostalgia?
     
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    You don't need to look at the theory, we have all we need to test Sam's hypothesis now



    Team
    %3PFGA Regular Season -> Playoffs

    2018-19
    Raptors
    38.0 -> 40.7

    Warriors
    38.3 -> 38.0

    2017-18

    Warriors
    35.3 -> 37.7
    Cavs
    39.4 -> 38.7

    2017

    Warriors
    37.2->39.3
    Cavs
    41.8->42.3

    2016
    Cavs 37.0 ->37.8
    Warriors 37.8-> 40.0

    That's just a small sample of NBA finalists - but I'm sure the numbers are probably similar for everyone, absent some yearly noise, most teams probably try to do the same things in the playoffs they tried to do in the regular season. Saying somethign is a "championship closing" shot based on empirical evidence of Michael Jordan on Bryon Russell (rather than say, Michael Jordan passing to an open Jon Paxson or Steve Kerr) is just as math-y as all the analytics in the world, it's just suspect math based on a very small sample.
     
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  20. harold bingo

    harold bingo Iso Only Fan
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    The math doesn't say otherwise. The math shows that mid range and/or post ups are often better in late game situations.
     
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