One more likely ring ties Bird and LeBron ring count. Tied with Bird for FMVP, could likely get his 3rd to tie LeBron this season but maybe Curry gets his 1st? He's likely to be 30 years old with 3 rings and 2 or 3 FMVP's. Already known as top 3 greatest scorers ever and among the greatest shooters ever and continues to show his defense is above other all time greats like Magic/Bird/Oscar etc. Keeps improving as a playmaker/point forward. Among very few who you can truly say has no weakness in his game. Disregard the hate. I'm not one to be brainwashed by narratives. Him joining GS is no different in my mind to what LeBron did 2 times in his career already + with this Lakers move potentially being #3(a team loaded with assets to trade for an AD for example and cap to sign a Kawhi to form yet another super team). KD's got the stats and advanced metrics for regular season and playoffs. Let's be real. He's past PIP, He's past Baylor, He's past Nique. Maybe arguable, but to me he's past Dr. J.(ESPN had KD #4 behind Dr. J in 2016 before he became a Warrior) I think he ties Bird in career after this year for #2 SF all time. Bird's mostly around 5-9 in the top 10 all time list(ESPN had Bird at #6 in 2016). I've not seen a single person have KD in the top 10 of all time. I think it's time to start making adjustments. Same with Curry who in my opinion is now just outside the top 10 which i once thought was impossible back when most were a prisoner of the moment. I need time and more seasons/consistency before i start to view someone among the greatest ever(some here were saying he was the GOAT back in his insane 2016 season). KD's been toe to toe with LeBron/Kobe his whole career so do sheer ring count volume carry enough weight to surpass LeBron? What does he have to do to pass LeBron as the greatest SF of all time and ahead of him in the GOAT conversation? Can he do anything at all? Most people would probably have a difficult time taking any version of KD over true peak LeBron, but career-wise?
KD will never pass LeBron. Give that up. He will never be in the GOAT discussion. Because Bird's back injuries both plagued his final years and cut his career short, KD has a chance. Regardless, he still won't match Bird's 3-straight MVPs. Bird also played with a personality and pizzazz that KD just doesn't have. I can't quantify or explain it. For the record, I'm not a hater at all. KD is my all-time favorite college player. That year was magical. I was also a KDOF while he was at OKC and watched nearly all of their games his first several seasons. I started turning away some when he played the Rockets in the playoffs. As of now, I no longer like him.
The moment he signed with GS he killed his chances. I don't know why people try to so hard to go against the narrative flow; it's the closest indicator of what the general consensus is.
In your mind maybe KD going to the Warriors is the same as Lebron going to the Lakers, but that is because you are clearly a Lebron hater. Who the hell equates the freaking lotto Lakers to GSW??? For majority of people though KD will never be seen as a great because the team he joined doesn't need him to win a ring. Maybe he's better than Pippen who is the GOAT sidekick. I'll give him that.
Sounds a bit too emotional to truly look at it without bias. I get your point with Bird having a hurt back at 32 coming off of his best individual season statistically speaking. I get that peak for peak, you can still always pick Bird over KD. I'm probably getting ahead of myself honestly and i change my rankings all the time. Bird joined the Celtics and gave them the greatest turnaround in NBA history as a rookie and led them to the ECF. Won it all as a 2nd year player. Bird's teams were stacked, but not in a stacked way where others can get MVP consideration on his team or take away MVP consideration because of how good his teammates are individually. KD has always had Russ stat hogging and now the media will never let him have one on the Warriors unless he goes off. KD has 1 MVP with 3x runner up in a league with LeBron getting all the love. I'd say it's not as big of a gap as you would think 3MVP>1MVP So the moment LeBron joined Miami he killed his chances of rivaling MJ for GOAT? Doesn't seem to be the case. Most have already forgotten it and made him the hero again after being sold on a "I'm coming home" narrative which was really just a weak bail out on Miami.
If my complete honesty makes you think I'm too emotional to have an objective opinion, whatever. I'm not like you.
Has to be. No objective, logical person would conceive of putting KD at LeBron's level. That is sheer lunacy. I almost feel dirty "defending" LeBron's greatness after rooting against him so much over the years.
A better question would be, can Rudy Gay pass KD? But seriously, Larry Bird and LBJ are far superior passers, with the will to dominate on both ends of the court. KD is an exceptional scorer, but he has a long way to go to be compared to Larry Bird or LeBron James.
I don't think KD is even past Dr.J in my book. If he wins 4-6, I think I'd have elevate him at that point. There are a few centers with more titles than Wilt. He's the standard at center. He's hard to elevate him over those 3, since they are some of the best playmakers ever. With Bird and LeBron, they have different facets to their game, beyond scoring. You can hold both players under 15 pts. and they can still effect the outcome of a game, like a pg or solid forward.
If you think Kevin is anywhere close to the player that Bird was, I truly pity that you weren't there to witness true greatness. To disrespect Bird is to disrespect some truly great Rockets teams, too.
How so? He's #2 all time for me..I call things like i see it. I'm sick of the excuses that guy gets. There's always an excuse for everything. Let me finish the gif..."Not 4...not 5, not 6, not 7!" It ain't KD's fault he did it better and going to get more rings out of it than LeBron. KD should have started this team-up thing same age LeBron did. He's 2 years behind and on MJ/Kobe ring pace. And let me guess...if they trade their young guys for AD and sign Kawhi, "it's the right way" and "lebron had no choice."
All the emotion behind KD is why i started this thread. It's still too early i guess. Winning cures all. Always. He's going to keep piling them up. 2 of them with 2 FMVP directly against LeBron. Add another one potentially directly against Kawhi. Who knows beyond that. The accolades and the skill set will speak for him when it's all said done. Of course KD is not the passer LeBron or Bird were. Bird's not the defender KD is. KD is a better more dynamic scorer. I don't think the gap for his play making is that far from the top tier passing SF's considering he played with Russ and now on a 33-34min nightly blow out schedule without the need to stat pad like LeBron. Assists are hard to compare anyway. There's tons of amazing passers who don't have the assist stats you'd think. I would always argue Bird was the better passer than LeBron despite the advanced metrics being way in favor of LeBron, but that's the thing. You've got guys like Michael and Kobe in the triangle, you've got Bird passing out of the elbow and half court with minimal spacing, and then you've got your LeBrons and Westbrooks who have the ball in their hands the majority of the 38-40mpg where they basically are the system and rack up assists. It's more of an eye test thing for me. Off topic, but while on the subject of different statistical value. Rebounding is pretty meaningless in todays era. You can't compare Bird grabbing 10 in his era with bigs clogging paint to guys like LeBron, Russ and Harden getting majority of theirs uncontested in this league where bigs camp at the 3pt line.
You telling me KD needs up to 6 titles to pass up DR. J?? And i'm a hater? What's Dr J do better? Block shots and dunk and score in transition? Bigger hands/steals? He had weak handles, broken jumper and outside of his hugely inflated ABA stats, his NBA stats are more prime Scottie Pippen like. His NBA career PER is 22. A lot of Doc's level is with taking account his insane ABA stats which is ridiculous. He's got 1 NBA MVP. Runner up once, top 3 finish was his 3rd best season with the rest being around 5 outside of top 5. Dr. J saved basketball before Magic/Bird and he revolutionized the dunk and all that, but as a straight up baller, KD is a better basketball player with or without any titles and he's already ahead of Dr J in titles. He couldn't get his 1 ring as the main man, he got his as a #2 to MVP Moses Malone who also won FMVP.
He'll finish top 15, but never past Bird or top 10. Those are for legends, not the likes of KD and he'll never past Lebron. You can only mention Lebron and MJ. That's like mentioning MJ and Harden. You just can't do that
Lebron made Miami and Clevekand a contender they dont win a ring without him obv. Thats why there is nothing wrong with his power teams. Kd isn't "doing it better" he was flat out cheating going to a team that already won a ring without him. If Lebron signed with Boston for vet min instead of making his own team in Miami that would be his "Kd move". Kd is like a ring chasing vet except he is in his prime doing it which is just pathetic imho. It doesn't matter how many rings he wins since he is playing with a stacked deck and bringing machine guns in a knife fight.
KD will never be the passer some elites were. That is something I think will hurt his legacy. You have to be an allround talent. He is decent at that but not great. At his size I dun think his Defense is that great either.
