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Cali SCLC president: Black church played a significant role in Prop 8 passing

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    I agree w/ Dr. Lee.

    pgabs faints.

    [rquoter]Civil Rights Group Divided Over Gay Marriage

    By JENNIFER STEINHAUER
    LOS ANGELES — The Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the 50-year-old civil rights organization founded by the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and others, is seeking to remove the president of its Los Angeles chapter in response to his support of same-sex marriage in California.

    The effort by the Atlanta-based organization is meeting stiff resistance in Los Angeles from both the board of the local chapter, whose chairman is secretary of the state’s Democratic Party, and the City Council president.

    During the battle last fall over Proposition 8, an amendment to the State Constitution that banned same-sex marriage, the chapter’s president, the Rev. Eric P. Lee, was more than a tangential figure for the opposition. He was front and center at an opposition group’s large rally at City Hall and marched in the blazing sun for 15 miles in Fresno. Many other local African-American pastors prepared mailings featuring church leaders in support of the proposition and linking their views to Barack Obama, then the Democratic nominee for president.

    Mr. Lee “was very helpful to us,” said Rick Jacobs, head of the Courage Campaign, a left-leaning political action group in Los Angeles that fought the initiative.

    While the Mormon Church raised a great deal of the money in support of the proposition, the role of African-American churches, and their voting parishioners, was not insignificant. The Edison/Mitofsky exit poll in California found that 70 percent of black voters backed the ban, which passed with 52 percent of the vote.

    Mr. Lee said that his opposition to Proposition 8 had “created tension in my life I had never experienced with black clergy.”

    “But it was clear to me,” he added, “that any time you deny one group of people the same right that other groups have, that is a clear violation of civil rights and I have to speak up on that.”

    In April, Mr. Lee attended a board meeting of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in Kansas City, Mo., and found himself once again in the minority position among his colleagues on the issue of same-sex marriage, but he was told, he said, by the group’s interim president, Byron Clay, that the organization publicly had a neutral position on the issue.

    So a month later, Mr. Lee said, he was surprised to receive a call from the National Board of Directors summoning him immediately to Atlanta to explain why he had taken a position on same-sex marriage without the authority of the national board.

    Explaining that he was unable to come to Atlanta on such short notice, Mr. Lee then received two letters from the organization’s lawyer, Dexter M. Wimbish, threatening him with suspension or removal as president of the Los Angeles chapter if he did not come soon to explain himself.

    Mr. Wimbish did not return calls to his office, nor did the Rev. Raleigh Trammell, chairman of the organization’s national board. A woman who identified herself as Renee Richardson left a voice-mail message for a reporter, saying the organization did not “discuss internal matters.” She did not return follow-up calls.

    The issue attracted the attention of the president of the Los Angeles City Council, Eric Garcetti, who wrote to the board in support of Mr. Lee.

    Because chapters of the leadership conference operate autonomously and presidents are picked by local boards, it is not clear that the national organization has the authority to remove Mr. Lee from his post, which he has held for two years.

    “It’s been our position that the local board hired him,” said Reginald Byron Jones-Sawyer, chairman of the local board and secretary of the California Democratic Party. “And, in fact, we are also the ones that approved his stance on the position of marriage equality. We have asked the national board if we have violated any procedures, and we have not gotten an answer.”

    Mr. Lee, the former pastor of In His Steps, an African-American Wesleyan church in Los Angeles that he described as “very conservative,” said he saw failures both in the leadership of the conference (“Dr. King would be turning over in his grave right now,” he said) and the largely white anti-Proposition 8 movement that did not more actively seek the support of church-going African-Americans.

    “The black church played a significant role in Proposition 8 passing,” Mr. Lee said. “The failure of the campaign was to presume that African-Americans would see this as a civil rights issue.”[/rquoter]
     
  2. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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  3. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    How hilarious is it that Batman tries to immediately derail every basso thread, but when the same trick is applied to him, he runs to the mods? Telling...
     
  4. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Contributing Member

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    That's awesome. The mods have told us repeatedly that you're the biggest tattletale crybaby on the board.
     
  5. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Quoted for Truth

    Rocket River
     
  6. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    I notice you didn't address the point... which validates my point.

    I very rarely report posts these days, unlike you.
     
    #6 El_Conquistador, Jul 12, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2009
  7. MrRoboto

    MrRoboto Member

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    Why do you care? I swear this is like the girl in church who tells her mom, "johnny was peaking during prayer!". Hmm, how did she know?

    Are you guys five years old?? I thought you were richer and smarter than everyone else? Why do you constantly regress to a level of pettiness far below that befitting a man of your stature?

    Grow up! Those who take up the mantle of blind partisan politics, and the associated finger pointing, betray themselves as blind ignorant fools.

    The founding fathers recognized the necessary evil of compromise. The whole constitution and principles behind our government are designed to consistently swing the pendulum back to the middle. All of these arguments concerning large government, states rights vs. federal rights, etc. were there from the beginning.

    Show you are a proud American! Practice tolerance, respect and the ability to compromise for the benefit of your country. Anything less simply deteriorates that which you hold dear.
     
    2 people like this.
  8. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Probably because the mods told you to shut up because you're the worst offender when it comes to hijacking threads.
     
  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    So you brought this issue back up because of a guy who fought against prop 8?
     
  10. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    just thought it interesting that that guy frankly acknowledges what you and several other posters have been at pains to deny: that the black vote played a significant role in Prop 8 passing. i find the whole strange bedfellows/ unintended consequences dynamic fascinating.
     
  11. Major

    Major Member

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    Too bad the actual numbers disagree.
     
  12. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    basso, even if the number were significant, its nothing significant about christian leaders opposing gay marraige, black or otherwise
     
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Real prop 8 stats

    Certainly, the No on 8 folks might have done a better job of outreach to California's black and Latino communities. But the notion that Prop 8 passed because of the Obama turnout surge is silly. Exit polls suggest that first-time voters -- the vast majority of whom were driven to turn out by Obama (he won 83 percent [!] of their votes) -- voted against Prop 8 by a 62-38 margin. More experienced voters voted for the measure 56-44, however, providing for its passage.

    Now, it's true that if new voters had voted against Prop 8 at the same rates that they voted for Obama, the measure probably would have failed. But that does not mean that the new voters were harmful on balance -- they were helpful on balance. If California's electorate had been the same as it was in 2004, Prop 8 would have passed by a wider margin.

    Furthermore, it would be premature to say that new Latino and black voters were responsible for Prop 8's passage. Latinos aged 18-29 (not strictly the same as 'new' voters, but the closest available proxy) voted against Prop 8 by a 59-41 margin. These figures are not available for young black voters, but it would surprise me if their votes weren't fairly close to the 50-50 mark.

    At the end of the day, Prop 8's passage was more a generational matter than a racial one. If nobody over the age of 65 had voted, Prop 8 would have failed by a point or two. It appears that the generational splits may be larger within minority communities than among whites, although the data on this is sketchy.



    please let this issue go
     
  14. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

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    um..okay..so it took 10 posts before someone other than the OP actually discussed the topic.
     
  15. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, some people are tired of basso's race baiting on this issue just like they were on the banking crisis which he tried to blame on poor minorities.

    furthermore, people are tired of a guy who lines up with wingnuts against gay marraige like umm, i don't know, palin, but he wants to blame prop 8 on blacks.

    you would do yourself a favor by searching his posting history on this topics
     
    #15 pgabriel, Jul 13, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    You must have had a really sh-tty weekend basso if you spent Sunday night unfurling the long lines of race bait - trouble on the home front or something? :confused:
     
  17. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    Palin, Obama, Biden, and Carrie Prejean all have the same position wrt gay marriage.
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    Except they don't:

    Palin: Supports constitutional gay marriage ban
    Obama: Doesn't support constitutional gay marriage ban

    Seems pretty simple, really - if only you were interested in facts.
     
  19. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    nothing is ever simple in bassoworld
     
  20. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    you must not have watched the Biden/Palin debate.
     

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