BREAKING: Max Kellerman hates on james harden

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Mathrocker, Dec 6, 2017 at 1:24 PM.

  1. Streets 01

    Streets 01 Member

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    When will you all understand that this is the media’s job. It doesn’t matter which sports show it is, there has to be a debate. That’s why people watch. If the segment went.

    “I think James Harden is the clear MVP”

    [Insert reasons]

    “Yep.”

    “Absolutely agree!”

    [End segment]

    These shows wouldn’t draw as much attention. The thing no one is talking about is that the lone dissenter (there’s always one) was pro-LeBron but everyone else was pro-Harden. There’s still plenty of season left but right now Harden is the clear favorite whereas in seasons past it was always clear he’d come in second despite compelling reasons he shouldn’t have.
     
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  2. RockWest

    RockWest Member

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    Kellerman is biased? He doesn't like Harden? What?!
     
  3. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

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    The Cavs are a team and system built by lebron for lebron
     
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  4. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Higher WS/48, BPM, PER, RPM.

    Best player on 67 win team (a win total eclipsed by only a handful of teams in league history).

    Compare to last year: Harden has better WS/48, Westbrook has better PER, BPM, and RPM.

    Harden’s team wins more games, but nothing special historically speaking. 55 wins is also on the low end as MVP winners go.

    People need to stop comparing the 2015 and 2017 MVP races.
     
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  5. MystikArkitect

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    So there are literally endless articles praising the Rockets, #1 in most power rankings, Harden MVP on most rankings and we still give a **** what Kellerman thinks?

    Come on guys.
     
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  6. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    Media criticism of Harden doesn't concern me in the least nor should it concern him as well. You want Harden to shut people up? Then tell him to go out and WIN something. Believe me, after doing that NOTHING the Kellermans, O'Neals, Barkleys or SAS clones can say will mean ****.
     
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  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. Rockets4Life13

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    Preseason: Deepest, best team lebron ever played on!

    Now: Everyone else besides lebron sucks!

    Preseason: Harden and Paul won't work! Stupid move!

    Now: When Harden goes down he still has Paul to run the show! Too much help! Harden sucks in the playoffs!
     
  9. Wylo

    Wylo Member

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    Except that when it comes to LeBron, Curry, or other players, people make effective arguments on BOTH sides. Even when guys like Skip Bayless hate on LeBron, there is always an opponent that presents an effective counter argument, and the result is somewhat fair and balanced.

    When it comes to Harden, this dynamic completely falls apart. While I wouldn't necessarily say Max's arguments are good, they are still effective because it shows that he has studied at least a little bit about Harden's past and his tendencies. For example, this is like the 100th time that I've seen Max Kellerman diminish Harden's MVP caliber status due to "D'Antoni Inflation", and yet not one single person on the pro Harden side has mentioned that Harden was already an MVP runner-up under McHale who ran ZERO system but ISO Harden.

    The common end result of the Harden debate on national TV shows such as the First Take is the negative side winning the battle, because usually they have more knowledge, depth, and passion for their argument. That's the part that annoys me the most.
     
    #89 Wylo, Dec 6, 2017 at 3:48 PM
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017 at 4:05 PM
  10. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Lol... good observation...

    If the season ended today, and Lebron won the MVP ahead of Harden, it'd basically be time to stop handing out MVPs.
    Best stats, best record, best combination of stats and record. There's no category of those where Lebron should be the MVP.

    Kellerman's argument seems to boil down to a couple of things:
    #1 - On no planet is Harden or anyone else in the NBA a better player than Lebron James, in Lebron James best year. That'd be true... except it isn't. Harden is this year. This is a regular season award, and for the regular season, this year, Harden is better.

    #2 - Harden's stats are inflated because of the system. Hey, I think this is actually true. He compared it to a HR hitter playing for the Rockies. And I actually do get that... it does make sense. The thing is... the Rockets aren't the only one playing in Coors Field here. The Cavs are 3rd in ORtg. They were great in ORtg last year, too. And it's not because Lebron propels teams to have great ORtgs. I mean he made the Finals his first time in 06/07 and those Cavs were 18th in ORtr (they were great defensively). His 4 years with the Heat, they were 3rd, 2nd, 8th and 5th in Ortg. It's not like you have Lebron, and he's the system. Specific to this year... oh, hey, the Cavs take a crap ton of 3s (5th in the league), not very many 2s (25th in the league) and a LOT of FTs (1st in the league). Hmmm... sound familiar?

    More than anything, the MVP is a regular season award. In team sports, and in basketball in particular, it gets way too much focus, imo. Playoff MVPs matter much more. But for the regular season, MDA's system does inflate stats, but it also inflates W/L record and works. For a regular season award, that MDA will have coached a lot of MVPs in his time (3 after this year...!!), it is logical and makes sense.
     
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  11. Mathrocker

    Mathrocker Member

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    @Purvis2Short @daywalker02 @OTMax
     
  12. DonKnock

    DonKnock Member

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    Why would it not concern him? Any player that got the designated player extension has substantial contract provisions tied to MVP and All-NBA teams which are both Media selected awards.

    Part of OKC’s push for Westbrook last year was so that they could pay him more money in an extension because he would then fulfill those sections in the contract and they would have a higher probability to keep him.
     
  13. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member

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    Because the number of media suckers on Clutchfans has gone from 0 in 1999 to like 50% now.
    You are at the point in human civilization that some dude's dad says he can beat MICHAEL JORDAN one on one and it makes the news

    You can post that a rock said it hates Harden and you will have a thread that's 5 pages long about a rock
     
  14. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Same as last season. Shifting narratives. We know how that turned out.
     
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  15. Fantasma Negro

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    First of all you're right, **** espn. But James put himself in this position by choking three times in the worst way in the playoffs. We as a whole have got to stop giving a **** about these worthless opinions of people just because they're on tv
     
  16. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    It's a tv show where people take different opinions and then debate. Someone has to play the part of the fool.
     
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  17. swyyyguy

    swyyyguy Member

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    Didn't you push the Lin thread to 100 pages single handedly?
     
  18. Wylo

    Wylo Member

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    There is only one statistical category where Harden benefits playing under MDA and that is his assist numbers. I think that's pretty clear to everyone. But if you watch the clip, Max made this argument after the black guy mentioned that Harden leads the league in scoring. Ah, what? Harden averaged 29 PPG under McHale and J.B. Bickerstaff for god's sake, and his PPG are slightly up this year only because Harden has become a deadly three point shooter which would naturally bump up his averages. So no, scoring wise Harden is doing it all by himself, which is obvious because Harden is leading the league in ISO attempts and literally hitting shots with defenders' hands in his face.
     
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  19. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    Lol at this thread..max Kellerman doesn't care about harden LeBron or basketball in general. He probably didn't watch the NBA before he got hired for first take. He's a boxing analyst hired to replace Skip Bayless and yell at as Stephen a smith. His opinion on the NBA is worth as much as Joe Rogan opinion on figure skating.

    Stop being such babiea
     
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  20. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    That's true, good point.

    Though his 3PA numbers did jump from 10.3 to 12.3 to 14.8 (on a per 100 possession basis) from McHale/JB to MDA to MDA.

    But it was trending that way anyways.

    I think your comment speaks to the fact that MDA's offense in Houston hasn't been so much about the system. I mean that's a part. But they were already trying to play with speed/pace, and be 3s, paint and FTs. MDA's complete buy-in certainly helped. But it's more about moving Harden to PG and then replacing DMo/TJones with Anderson and replacing Ty Lawson and crap with Eric Gordon... perfect complimentary pieces whereas the other guys weren't, offensively.

    Harden's assist numbers are done this year relative to last (not a lot), and down more since CP3 returned. Hmmmm.... shocking, when he's no longer the sole PG his assist numbers revert a bit. To that point, I'd say even the assist numbers aren't a function of system as much as it is just position. It's now clear Harden can play PG and SG.
     
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