1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Best Rotation Ever?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by lnchan, May 7, 2018.

  1. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,610
    Likes Received:
    1,293
    Houstunna likes this.
  2. Htown Stros

    Htown Stros Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    925
    Likes Received:
    600
  3. TheresTheDagger

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    7,055
    Likes Received:
    2,721
  4. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    13,797
    Likes Received:
    1,896
    It is still weird having this great a pitching staff a season after having one of the greatest hitting seasons.
     
    Marteen and everyday eddie like this.
  5. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    13,797
    Likes Received:
    1,896
  6. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    13,797
    Likes Received:
    1,896
    https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-continuing-evolution-of-justin-verlander/

    Interesting article on Verlander
    Cliff Notes
    1. Verlander is throwing from a higher arm slot that causes his fastball to rise more and breaking pitches to sink more.
    2. As fastball rises more, he can throw it in the zone more often for strikes with no fear.
    3. As he's throwing fastball in the zone more, he can throw breaking pitches in the dirt as they look like fastballs in the zone.
    4. It sucks to face Verlander.
     
    vince likes this.
  7. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    34,651
    Likes Received:
    12,213
  8. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,610
    Likes Received:
    1,293
    Speaking of best....

    I was at Baseball Reference just combing the records over the years and got to 2000 and had totally forgot we only won 72 games that year, bookended by 93 and 97 win years.
    What happened?

    The pitching (lack of) is what happened. 1 guy, a relief pitcher had a ERA < 4.00. 1 Guy, and he wasn't ever a starter. That 2000 squad had a team ERA of 5.42 :eek:

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2000.shtml
     
  9. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    38,797
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    They moved into Enron Field. The pitching staff, used to being in the Astrodome, couldn't adjust. Additionally, the fences were different when it first opened, with the yellow line in LCF being significantly lower than they are now.

    Scott Elarton was also overused by Dierker from the previous years as a bridge bullpen guy, and his arm started to fatigue. Mitch Melusky was a terrible person, let alone handler of a pitching staff. Jose Lima wasn't ever as good as his numbers suggested, but also fell apart mentally. Billy Wagner pitched hurt, didn't tell anybody, eventually needed surgery.

    The offense, on the other hand, was as good as its ever been. The team eventually adjusted to the ballpark, but you can definitely point to the lack of adjustment (along with the above factors) as a reason for a brief implosion.
     
  10. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,499
    Likes Received:
    6,890
    Enron Field happened. Pitchers were completely mindf**ked by the Crawford Boxes. Pitchers were legit scared to throw strikes, and that mindf**king traveled with them on the road. The Coors field effect, when some pitchers join the Rockies their road numbers suffer greatly, for no good reason.

    Honestly I was legit worried we were the new Colorado despite the epic offense.

    Fortunately Oswalt brought his big nuts to Enron to show that you don't need to be scared to pitch your game, and we've pretty much been fine ever since.
     
  11. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,610
    Likes Received:
    1,293
    Yup. Alou, Hidalgo and Bagwell hit 121 home runs that year.
     
  12. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    38,797
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    As I said before, raising the LCF homerun line also helped. Re-acquiring Brad Ausmus to guide the staff also helped. Along with eventually stopping the practice of opening the roof mid-game.

    Oswalt's 2001 debut was electric... but Wade Miller actually beat him to the punch of showcasing elite Enron pitching early in the year.
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    38,797
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    And rookie Lance Berkman already looked like one of the best hitters in baseball.
     
  14. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,499
    Likes Received:
    6,890
    249 for the club, that's still an NL record for a team. 10 ahead of the next closest team.
     
  15. DieHard Rocket

    DieHard Rocket Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2000
    Messages:
    9,099
    Likes Received:
    526
    I had totally forgotten that Ausmus' tenure in Houston was split by the couple of years in Detroit
     
  16. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    38,797
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    Should also be mentioned, even though none of these guys were ever directly implicated, this was the absolute height of the PED era. Before anybody started to raise substantial concerns.

    The following year, where Bonds breaks the record, was also when people started speaking up. Then, it was all downhill from there.
     
  17. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,610
    Likes Received:
    1,293
    We gave up 234.
     
  18. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    21,956
    Likes Received:
    2,675
    Also, Biggio went on the DL for the first time in his career with a torn ACL sliding into 2nd...I believe it was against the Marlins.
     
  19. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    38,797
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    Sure. Didn't mention him because he really didn't impact the pitching.
     
  20. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2000
    Messages:
    8,950
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    But they could've moved Biggio to catcher, and Berkman back to 1B with Bagwell to 3rd (throwing left handed obviously).
     
    bobrek likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now