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Bernie Force Hillary to Support Medicare Buy IN

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, May 10, 2016.

  1. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    In a major victory for Bernie's Political Revolution Hillary has announced that she is in favor of the "public option" which allows older Americans to buy into Medicare. The New York Times rightfully I think attributes this to the Bernie Sanders pushing Hillary. Now it will be up to the Political Revolution to make Hillary do it, if she becomes president. Of course the devil is in the details and expect the usual opposition to try to make the purchase as expensive as possible and present as many obstacles as possible.

    This is an important step toward ending the inefficient private insurance industry which cannot compete with Medicare due to their high administrative costs for complex billing systems, marketing, and the need to charge extra for CEO bonuses as well as ordinary stockholder profits.

    +++++++++++ NYT front page tonight
    Mr. Sanders calls his single-payer health care plan “Medicare for all.” What Mrs. Clinton proposed was a sort of Medicare for more.

    The Medicare program covers Americans once they reach 65. Beneficiaries pay premiums to help cover the cost of their coverage, but the government pays the bulk of the bill. Mrs. Clinton’s suggestion was that perhaps younger Americans, “people 55 or 50 and up,” could voluntarily pay to join the program.

    She made the remarks as she continues to face a determined challenge on the left from Mr. Sanders, forcing her to essentially fight a two-front war as she seeks to turn her attention to Donald J. Trump and the general election. While Mr. Sanders trails by a substantial number of delegates, his effect continues to be felt in the race as he pressures Mrs. Clinton to adopt more progressive positions.
     
  2. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Is there any chance Bernie could be the VP nominee?
     
  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Except that while Sanders has referred to his program as "Medicare for all" it actually would be different program that would replace existing Medicare. Further while this is a new proposal for Hillary Clinton as the NYT piece notes it's a proposal that had been brought up before by Bill Clinton so something that she was well aware of.

    While this might be a move to driven by Sanders I suspect this is far more of a move in preparation for the General.
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Bernie has no chance. Hillary feels no pressure from him.

    Heck, Trump has a better chance of becoming President than Burn at this point.
     
  5. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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  6. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

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    lolol, this post is awesome.
    It really feels like you wrote this comment just to make sure any chance of credit going towards Sanders was squashed while trying to maintain some bs facade of objectivity. Damn, this is good, gotta give credit where it's due. You really hate this guy huh?
     
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    I fully admit I have a bias that said neither you nor Glynch have addressed that the piece Glynch cite does say this plan was originally floated back by Bill Clinton in the 1990's so it's not something unique nor the fact that Sanders himself has said that his program will be different than Medicare and replace them.

    Since it looks like Glynch forgot to link to the article.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/11/us/politics/hillary-clinton-health-care-public-option.html?_r=0
    [rquoter]The idea of allowing people to buy in to Medicare has been discussed in policy circles and in Congress for decades. Mrs. Clinton’s husband, former President Bill Clinton, floated a similar proposal in 1998, including it in his State of the Union address that year. The strategy has been embraced by many advocates of single-payer health care as a way to move more Americans into the existing government system. An incremental expansion of Medicare was the hoped-for strategy of Medicare’s original authors.[/rquoter]

    Yet again you've attacked a messenger without addressing direct substance.

    As far as if I hate Sanders I don't. I give him a lot of credit and don't buy into some of the extreme rhetoric that he is sexist. If we're talking hatred I think a pretty easy comparison of how I have treated Sanders compared to how you have treated Clinton will show a very clear difference. As I said double standards and all. This forum is about debate and discussion and as such I will point out counter points. If you consider that hatred then so be it.
     
    #7 rocketsjudoka, May 11, 2016
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
  8. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    I'll give Hilary credit for recognizing that Bernie continue to win state after state, she probably out to listen to the folks that are giving him victories. It's her best chance for the general. Now, it's probably lip service like all politicians. I can remember Obama making wonderful promises during the general and then he decided to increase drone bombing on everyone and increase spying on everyone. So I won't hold my breath that she means it.
     
  9. Major

    Major Member

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    She also supported it in 2007-2008 during her previous campaign, and also when it was debated in Congress in 2009. And, many months ago in this campaign. But hey, it must be Bernie!
     
  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Still, it might be in Hillary's interest to make it seem like it was Sanders influence. That will make Sander appear to have a victory and allow more supporters of him to vote for Hillary.
     
  11. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Yeah he sure did. It is interesting that these middle age Hillary guys are acting just like how they claim the youngest "Bernie Bros", both men and women, are acting in their support for Hillary.

    Despite this Hillary's change on this is encouraging, though as Bill and Obama have long done there is a tactic of using liberal or progressive rhetoric in the primary or in the general election , but moving back toward the big donor/lobbyist position once in office.
     
  12. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Yeah he sure did. It is interesting that these middle age Hillary guys are acting how they claim the youngest "Bernie Bros", both men and women, are acting in their support for Hillary.

    Hillary's change on Medicare for the under 65 crowd is encouraging, though as Bill and Obama have long done there is a tactic of using liberal or progressive rhetoric in the primary or in the general election , but moving back toward the big donor/lobbyist position once in office.

    As I see it the Clinton and their upper part of the one percent crowd as well as many of her most ardent supporters online are content to propose tiny incremental changes or make small rhetorical points due at least in part to the fact that they themselves are comfortable wrt to wages, healthcare, college tuition, retirement and the things that make the majority of Americans very impatient.
     
  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Maybe she could get passed a modest expansion of Medicare with a buy-in, but glynch there is no way we're going to go single-payer and just wipe-out/nationalize a billion dollar industry.
     
  14. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    I think the best way is to open up the wasteful and inefficient for profit health insurance industry to competition with Medicare for all age levels. The industry knows that it won't be long till the vast majority cut through industry propaganda and get over their fear and decide why pay more for in many cases less. Of course if there is an upper 5 to 10% let them buy private insurance supplements as is done with existing Medicare.

    I believe that is what happened in Canada. Once one Province had it the other saw how cheap and well it was so they followed suit. That is why there is an all out fight in Colorado to fight a refernedum iirc to have it in Colorado. Interesting recipients of big healthcare dollars like Hillary supporter Nancy Pelosi have weighed in for the insurance industry.

    Coloradans Will Put Single-Payer Health Care To A Vote : Shots ...
    www.npr.org/.../coloradans-will-put-single-payer-health-care-to-a-v...
    NPR
    Dec 19, 2015 - The group ColoradoCareYES gathered enough signatures — more than 100,000 — to put a single-payer health system on the ballot next fall. Under the plan, Coloradans would still pick their own providers of health care, but the new system would pick up all the bills.

    Edit. Alternatively open it up to the 50 or 55 plus age group. The word will get out quick as folks see the lower costs free of the large increases due to private companies as so many are suffering with as the renew their Obamacare.
     
    #14 glynch, May 11, 2016
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
  15. baubo

    baubo Member

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    This is the biggest fear I have with candidates running on a dream. Because you are never going to get everything you want passed since the U.S. government is not a dictatorship and you can't just overrule dissenting opinions even as the president.

    Even if we hypothetically put Sanders in as president today in place of Obama and give him 4 years, it's pretty far fetched to think a Republican held congress would let him have all this legislation passed. They wouldn't even pass Obama's much more moderate proposals. And before people say that Republican Party is dead, etc., they're not doing that badly in downticket races. It's still the "establishment" nominees running rather than more Trumpish type of candidates. Congress, regardless of whether it maintains Republican majority or slightly towards Democrats, are still going to be mostly conservative/moderate. There is absolutely no chance they do anything but throw Bernie's proposals back into his face.

    I'm not saying a truly progressive candidate can't be president, but said candidate must have a lot more ardent supporters than Sanders, who currently only covets a small segment of the population, namely younger white people. And the American system is designed to counter the type of factional candidates that Sanders represent.
     
  16. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

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    Caught me here, I haven't read the article or gotten any perspective on this issue, the previous post was just a little bit of snark that I felt needed to come your way. :p

    You sure about that? I think at the very least you don't like the guy. Giving him credit doesn't mean that you like him lol. The fact that you felt comfortable posting that BS opinion piece by that ridiculous lawyer just goes to show how you feel about the guy.

    IMO, I think it has more to do with your dislike for his supporters, whenever you talk about us there's this obvious disdain and condescension that's unmistakable. I would wager that that's bleeding over into your perspective of Sanders, which I can't blame you for (some of us are pretty annoying, myself included).

    That being said, we're not this monolithic cultish White Bernie Bro mob that the media seems to make us out to be. so try not to generalize us.

    Also, you think I've been harsh on Clinton? I haven't even begun to take the gloves off. Her record, especially on foreign policy, is downright atrocious. I don't know if you're mixing up my arguments and other Sanders' supporters, but I've been pretty tame.

    I don't like her, and I'm not going to try and hide that. I think she is an unfortunate product of the corrupt campaign finance system we have in place. I also think she's a weasel, and flip-flops FAR too often.
     
  17. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    How do you feel about being described as a "middle-aged bot," Judo? Ain't it a trip? I'm beyond middle age, as is glynch, I believe, but he has other nice things to say about me.

    Hey, since we've established that Ms. Clinton has come out for one of her husband's proposals, made in a State of the Union address, no less, and it jives with Mr. Sanders' proposal, maybe we could search for some common ground around here. Think so? Any comity to be seen between supporters of Senator Sanders, supporters of Secretary Clinton, and supporters of both?
     
  18. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I agree with a LOT of what you said. right on :cool:
     
  19. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    #19 glynch, May 12, 2016
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  20. mateo

    mateo Contributing Member

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    Explain why increasing taxes on stockholder profits is a good idea to fund healthcare? I thought that was paying for college? I feel like that is Bernie's solution for everything. He's gotta mix it up, sometimes he sounds like Cowboy Woody with that string in his back.

    "There's a snake in my boot! Break up the banks!"
     
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