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[BBall Breakdown] Is Harden's stepback legal?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tehG l i d e, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    broken down for the people that can't see it #footwork
     
  2. Aydge

    Aydge Member

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    Say it with me everybody. "Gather! 1-2!"

    Also he's been doing this move for years now... It is clearly not a travel.
     
  3. jbasket

    jbasket VeChainer
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    lmao at all the whiny neckbeards lamenting no traveling calls on Harden. Nothing better to do with their lives than complain about Harden's "travelings".

    But muh rulez bookz!! Count da stepz! He cheats!!

    Salty betas need to get a life and stop getting cucked by chads.
     
    adeelionaire likes this.
  4. Buck Turgidson

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    So much this.
     
  5. Derp McFlopsky

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    So you have to be an nba all star to post about it. I’ll show you my NBA ID card if you show me yours!

    Fair enough. I do think he gathers early though. It looks like the gather step is really the stop with the left foot, right foot 1, left jumpback 2, right/land 3. Picture this, if he gathers and does the usual side step 1-2 off that right foot it wouldn’t have been a 3 point shot. Just the dreaded long 2. He sees it and mid step throws in a straight back step. Or hell, maybe a better view clears it up and reveals the gather as the right foot.

    At the least, we can say the ambiguity here is immense and probably as far as the “gather step” can account for...there’s 4 clear “steps” and only 1 dribble between them. Stop on the left, right, jumpback left, land on the right.

    It was a great opening move for Harden, talking about game 1 in total now. He and Capela showed up huge.
     
  6. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    if you dont understand footwork then thats your issue, not mine.

    theres a video clearly breaking down everything in simple terms that @DarkHorse posted. feel free to watch. It should be stickied actually to me
     
    #106 YOLO, Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  7. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    The main confusion that casual / ignorant fans have with traveling calls is that they don't understand one of the following or both:
    • Gather Step
    • Completion of Dribble / Gaining Control of Ball

    1. Gather Step

    A gather step is the step a player takes as he is gathering the ball. So, what does gathering the ball actually mean?​

    NBA Rulebook

    A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step. The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.
    This means that until Harden completes a dribble or gains control of the ball, none of the steps Harden takes actually counts toward the steps for traveling. This leads to the next point of confusion for most causal / ignorant NBA fans; at what point does the player end his dribble or gain control of the ball?
    2. Completion of Dribble

    Per the NBA rule book, A dribble ends when the player:
    1. Touches the ball simultaneously with both hands.
    2. Permits the ball to come to rest while the player is in control of it. (palming or turning ball over on hand)
    3. Touches the ball more than once while dribbling, before it touches the floor.
    What this means is that until Harden gains control of the ball (gathers), his allowed 2 steps have not started yet. Now this leads to what confuses a lot of people; Harden completes a step before he gathers the ball to end his dribble, gathers the ball on the next step, and then takes another 2 steps in whatever direction, all in one fluid motion, giving the illusion that he just took 3-4 steps. Harden is a master of this dribbling footwork.​
     
    #107 chenjy9, Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
    bro2044 likes this.
  8. Derp McFlopsky

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    I think what’s happened here is you really didn’t read what I’ve been saying. Feel free to do that.
     
  9. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    "harden traveled" feel free to be wrong
     
  10. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance
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    ESPN's Sarah Spain did not agree with the video when I mentioned it to her on twitter.

     
  11. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    lol so now he has to shoot one legged. the left foot doesn't mean anything. hes allowed to land as long as he doesnt take anymore steps. if he moved any foot anymore after that then yes it would of been a travel.

    perfect example of someone who doesn't understand footwork. so when players take the steps after dribble and jump off both feet to dunk the ball is that a travel? Nope. Or does she believe players only dunk off one leg
     
    #111 YOLO, Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  12. Derp McFlopsky

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    Feel free to have an actual conversation about it. Otherwise I’ll start holding my breath waiting on that video of you doing this move...
     
  13. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    cool. nothing of your post says anything meaningful. ive posted enough on the move. how much more basic do you need it?

    i mean is the title harden's stepback for dummies really necessary
     
  14. Wylo

    Wylo Member

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    Deuce and amaru like this.
  15. Derp McFlopsky

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    When the gather occurs IS meaningful, in fact, it’s your entire argument.
     
  16. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    of course its meaningful. thats just stating the obvious.
     
    jcf likes this.
  17. Derp McFlopsky

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    Yeah. Well....then discuss it?

    The gather dribble is really awkward, at the very least we can agree that it was very ambiguous as to when he decided to "gather" the ball. Obviously you think the gather was when he plants the right foot, that would make it not traveling. I believe the timing of his move is so awkward that it just confused everybody.
     
  18. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    I think watching it on video is confusing especially just 1 angle.. its clearer to refs who are closer to the play - and 3 of them 3 different angles.. they hear the every dribble. they see when the players hands actually secure the ball and not simply on the ball.. hear when the ball is held.. they are the best ones to decide when the gather occurs
     
  19. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    Yes, it's legal. Except when it's not. Sometimes he gets away with an extra step. So does LeBron, Durant, Curry, and every other star in this legal since Pistol Pete.
     
  20. Snow Villiers

    Snow Villiers Member

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    Sarah Spain blocked Adam Clanton on Twitter hahaha
     
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