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[BBall Breakdown] Is Harden's stepback legal?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tehG l i d e, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    You misunderstood me, I think. You’re talking about a jump stop, which has this sequence:

    Gather, L, L+R

    After coming down on both feet, it’s a travel to take another step while still having possession of the ball. You either have to shoot or pass it out before landing if you jump in the air from that position. The rule book essentially allows both feet landing simultaneously to be treated as one step. But that’s different from what Harden is doing.
     
  2. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    The only difference is he is going away from the basket on the gather. Sure, the fact that each foot lands at a different time disqualifies it from being a jump stop (that is what caused the confusion earlier, I thought he landed at the same time) he is still technically safe in that he took two steps after he picked up his dribble which is always allowed then went up to shoot it. Sequence is:

    Step
    End dribble
    Gather
    One step (front foot back)
    Second step (back foot back)

    He still gets to keep his pivot foot (front foot on this move).
     
    sage281 likes this.
  3. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Right. The dispute here is that his detractors think he gathers before ending his dribble much of the time. I don’t agree, because the NBA has adopted a lax interpretation of the gather for many years, but that’s what the critics believe.
     
  4. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    agreed, that first step is NEVER added because it is simulateous with the time he ended the dribble and began to gather his shot. If they called that a travel then there would be over 50 travels a game.

    the fact is his dribble was live during that inititial step before the gather. the difference is fractions of a second on any part of that move and it is illegal.
     
  5. bugshardenspacejam

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    In this particular case it does appear to be a “double step back” (travel), but what haters fail to admit is 99%+ of the time Harden just does a normal legal stepback. This is the first time I’ve seen a double step back from him.
     
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  6. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    that move is so good it should be illegal.
     
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  7. Amel

    Amel Contributing Member

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    When I saw this last night, I thought this was a clear travel. Most of his step backs arent, but there are some like this one when he hops back to the three point line which are. Very hard to call
     
  8. jevjnd

    jevjnd Contributing Member

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    The snake analogy is pretty apt, but I think that a sneaky worm is even more apt. That said, I'm sure that we all have the same level of disdain for this former human victory cigar/role player.
     
  9. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    there was actually a point where harden traveled on a drive in the game and took 3 steps around 5 minutes into the second quarter. very surprised it was not called on harden because he rarely gets away with that stuff since he is already too good and teams cant stop him so they complain causing rule changes that apply to him first and foremost. /run on
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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  11. Derp McFlopsky

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    That one was a travel, he gathers before the right foot lands. Then a clear left-right stepback after that. That's 3.

    You haters finally got one right lulz...

    This is something that every good NBA ball handler does, pretty sure Rose does it the next time down the court. in truth, if he gathers even a tick later it's not a travel...that's probably why he got away with it. Oh yeah, and that little thing where the NBA allows star players to make star player plays. Like a step back 3 in yo grillio.

    He probably traveled on this move like 3 times all year. Crazy how we hear more about those 3 times than the countless legal ones.
     
  12. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    Exactly. I am Skyping at work with my colleague who is a native Minnesotan (big sports fan; spent money to go see the Vikings in Europe last football season and still follows the Timberwolves too, so he's more of a homer than I am). "Harden's Eurostep....traveling....pathetic....." Yep, I should have expected it.

    Sometimes he travels, sometimes he doesn't, but homers will say he never travels, haters will say he does nothing but, and since when does the league call a travel that isn't grotesque (a stumbling four-stepper)?
     
  13. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    it is close but here is the sequence

    Step
    End dribble
    Gather
    One step (front foot back)
    Second step (back foot back)

    he still has his front foot as the pivot

    go watch it in real time....do you really want that move to be illegal? it was disgusting.
     
  14. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    at 4:30

    see how fast it is. put it on .25 speed. it is two steps into a shot and if chooses not to shoot his front foot is his pivot.

    call it the 2 stepback if that makes you happy. you get 2 steps forward then the pivot.
     
    #74 Giannis, Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  15. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance
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    HATERS CHECKLIST

    [_] "James Harden travels."
    [_] "James Harden flops."
    [_] "Harden wouldn't be anything without FTs."
    [_] "James Harden doesn't play defense."
    [_] "James Harden chokes in the playoffs"
    [_] "James Harden isn't a good leader."
    [_] "James Harden is boring to watch."
     
  16. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I think if refs tried to call that in live time they'd be more likely to get the call right if they just flipped a coin. There's a chance if you break it down frame by frame that it was a travel, but even breaking it down frame by frame there's a chance it wasn't. In situations like that, you give the player the benefit of the doubt and move on. If they weren't going to call a travel on KAT toward the end of the game for walking around with the ball for a while trying to hand it to the ref, why the hell would we expect them to call that?
     
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  17. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    The slow mo makes it look like a non-travel to me. Regular speed looks like a travel travel.

    To me the first step is with the left foot inside the three point line, than a back step with the right foot behind the three point line, land and shoot. That's basically 2 steps, right?

    If you think it was a travel, is it because you think the step right before that sequence is a step? It's honestly so close even pausing it its hard to tell. "Technically"... per the "rulebook" that is. Again, in normal speed it looks like a travel double step back.
     
  18. Wylo

    Wylo Member

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    Sometimes he does travel, but most of the time it's fine. The issue is if we are going to micro analyze every single move by Harden, we better do the same to every other player in this league, and then the whole game will become a mess. NBA has never been too stringent about enforcing rules regarding travelling, carrying the ball, etc., and it's disingenuous to suggest that this is uniquely Harden's problem.
     
  19. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    This. If we are being honest, all stars travel from time to time, Harden included. Dream traveled at times during the Dream Shake. The thing though is that their footwork are so impeccable, fluid, and fast that 90% Harden, Dream, and like are not traveling and the remaining 10% is almost impossible to tell live.
     
  20. ooooaaaah!

    ooooaaaah! Member

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    I love how stupid people on the internet now have a voice. When a player picks up his dribble and takes two steps forward they have no problem but when Harden does the same thing in reverse, their little brains can't compute. I even saw one idiot talk about his pivot which has nothing to do with 3 step travel. I admit, it looks funny at first at normal speed. When you slow it down and look at when he picks up his dribble, it is almost always 2 or 1 step. Nobody works on footwork like Harden does. He should be applauded, instead you get the complaints from these troglodytes. This just makes me want to Rockets to win that much more.
     
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