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[BBall Breakdown] Is Harden's stepback legal?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tehG l i d e, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. napalm06

    napalm06 Fire Bill O'Brien
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    According to the NBA this year - probably not?
     
  2. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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  3. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    Wrong. The gather is after the first step back. Not a travel.
     
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  4. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Its a 50/50 call on whether he gather before or after putting down his left foot. Not unlike block/charge, but in this case the NBA has been fairly consistent in giving the offensive player the benefit of that call, unless it’s blatant. Harden’s skill allows him to execute the maneuver right at the boundary of legality.

    The league may adjust how they officiate that move in the offseason, but they can’t suddenly change how they call it in the middle of the playoffs just because of these whiners.
     
  5. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    I would guess there are about a million plays around the NBA like this
     
  6. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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  7. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    It is actually based on shooting, because Harden immediately enters his shooting motion it is legal and the second hop counts as one step even though he puts he moves both feet off the ground. it is no different than a power dribble. It is a travel if a shot does not follow in one motion.
     
  8. MD_in_Training

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    Didn't Ronnie make a video with bballbreakdown where he states Harden DOESN'T travel with his stepback?
     
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  9. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Yes, for the examples he was looking at.

    I mean, on occasion it is a travel, if we’re being honest.
     
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  10. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    It is not, you get one step and a hop on drives if you immediately go up to shoot and it is one motion, that is the way it has always been called, this is going away from the basket but it is the same concept.
     
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  11. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Contributing Member

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    How many conversations are we gonna have about a legal late gather?
     
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  12. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    also, after you do one step and the hop, you forfeit your pivot, and it is called a travel if you are not gathering to shoot it in one motion
     
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  13. napalm06

    napalm06 Fire Bill O'Brien
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    It's a travel on occasion. There was one last night where he really covered some distance on a step back. He was making the shots though!
     
  14. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Not the same. You’re talking about the jump stop. The key there isn’t taking a shot, but getting rid of the ball before landing (since you’ve just consumed your two steps, so landing with the ball would be illegal). For example, you could legally pass out in that instance.
     
  15. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    It's one of those 50/50 calls that you practically have to give to the offensive player almost every single time. The 50/50 being where you determine the gather step to be, since a player can technically take 1 million steps between the final dribble and the gather.

    What Harden has done is ingenious, since he basically utilized the idea of a player driving towards the basket and taking two steps and applied it across every other direction away from the basket instead. What's even more ingenious about this move is it is completely consistent with the way officials have historically officiated the 2 steps - officials often allow guys to take 3-4 steps since the point of gather is entirely subjective. The officials could justify not calling a travel every single time by claiming the gather step was never established.

    Whilst it is possible the NBA will look into it, I feel like this will open up a can of worms that they do not want to touch. They would need to begin establishing clearly in the rulebook what constitutes to a gather (and that's practically impossible to do), or they would need to state clearly the two step only applies when driving towards the basket (but that would completely alter the game since a lot of players utilize that two step to set their feet properly before shooting - a lot of catch and shoot players will catch the ball and shuffle both feet without dribbling (aka using the 2 steps) before shooting).

    In my opinion, I feel like the league will address this by clarifying why it's legal, as opposed to finding a way to make it illegal. It adds excitement to the game after all unlike the rip through moves that slow the game down.
     
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  16. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    nah, you guys are all wrong
     
  17. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    no you do not have to get rid of the ball before landing on a jump stop hop stop....whatever its called

    as long as you are gathering to shoot it is ok. you lose your pivot foot in this move and it is older than you guys think. yes, you are right you can gather, pump fake, and pass out and it is ok. but you have to be gathering.
     
  18. sealclubber1016

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    The NBA could theoretically start enforcing this.

    But then they would have to start enforcing all borderline travels league wide...and that would become a major mess.
     
  19. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    Here is the sequence, you guys are forgetting Harden going up to shoot (gathering) in one motion is what makes this move legal. He takes one step after he stops his dribble, then another step and the last foot to land is his pivot foot. You get two steps in the NBA and it does not matter which direction you go in as long as you are gathering. I was thinking of something else when I said he loses his pivot foot.

    you get two steps in the nba and that is exactly what harden uses.
     
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  20. Giannis

    Giannis Member

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    alrght after watching it for the fifth time let me explain what happens. He picks up his Dribbble after he takes that step forward. Then he steps back with that front foot While keeping his back foot planted and then he takes another step back with the foot that was back. Now his front foot is the pivot foot

    you are all welcome. feel free to argue basketball but you get to steps on the gather in basketball does not matter the direction
     
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