Basketball Question

Is this a joke, to rile us up into a battle of naming classic position players?

If not, you should first consider the fact that few if any teams have had a full complement of prototype players at every position. Secondly, prototype players is different than perfect players. For instance, the Lakers of 80's had prototype players at every position, but their power forwards always had weaknesses. Lastly, prototype players in the NBA are very different than college.

I think you might be interested in http://www.coachsedge.com/coaching/heycoach/ (that was before I changed my name from heycoach to heypartner) to find out what typical sets are available based on your players' strengths. The Rockets for one have a strength at the guard positions, so we typically run a 4 out 1 set, which many people confuse as ISOs for the guards.

Anyhow, if you really want to know the best at each position, and that is all you want, just go to http://www.nba.com/history/index_player.html for a full list of the best players of all time, and make sure you disregard Bill Laimbeer being listed.

 

I'll give it a shot.

PG - John Stockton - Needs to be able to handle and pass the ball and know where his team-mates are going to be on the floor at all times. They are like the quarterback in football. They need to run the plays, know how much time is left on both the game and shot clocks, know the match ups that favor his team. The PG is most like the coach on the court. (Other examples: Mark Jackson, Avery Johnson)

SG - Latrell Sprewell - The "scorer" on the team usually. Not necessarily the best shooter, but a slasher, good FT shooter, creator, someone who will put points on the board. The SG is also usually a good defender. (Other examples: Jerry Stackhouse, Eddie Jones, Ray Allen, Koby Bryant, Cuttino Mobley)

SF - Chris Mullin - The "shooter" on the team. Not always a good defender, or scorer, but can come off screens and fill it up from the outside. (Other examples: Dale Ellis, Eddie Johnson, Glen Rice, George McCloud, Chuck Person, Tracy Murray, )

PF - Otis Thorpe - The "banger" or "enforcer" on the team. This guy's job is to do all the dirty work. Get rebounds, put backs, tip ins, set a mean pick, make a hard foul, etc. (Other examples: Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, Kevin Willis, Dale Davis, PJ Brown)

C - Olajuwon - The front court scorer. Should block shots, clog up the middle, grab rebounds, play tough defense. He's the one who's job it is to make sure the other team doesn't have an open lane to the hoop. (Other examples: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan)

These also are what used to be the 'typical' player, but lately the SF has been more like a very athletic taller version of a SG. Players like Scottie Pippen, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Michael Finley, Grant Hill, etc are all just taller shooting guards, IMO.

The PG position has also become a main scoring option ala Magic, Gary Payton, Terrell Brandon, Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, Sam Cassell, etc.

I've never played organized ball, so my descriptions may not be exactly what you may need. But I've watched the game for almost two decades, and not just as a casual fan.

------------------
I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.


[This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited May 17, 2000).]

 

Interesting questions - here's my best shot (God, help me!):

PG: The primary role of the point is to handle the ball and distribute while scoring if they have that ability.
Prototype (old): John Stockton
Prototype (new): Steve Francis, Gary Payton
There could be some argument on Magic Johnson but he was a freak of nature and there was only really one of him - even Steve Smith and Penny Hardaway eventually moved to SG.

SG: The shooting guard is aptly named because his job is primarily to score and fill the lanes on the break.
Prototype (old): Michael Jordan
Prototype (new): Michael Jordan

SF: The small forward generally is the most all-around athletic player who can run the floor, shoot, pass and handle the ball a little.
Prototype (old): Larry Bird
Prototype (new): Scottie Pippen, Shareef Abdur Rahim

PF: The power forward is a rebounding and defensive specialist, generally, who plays his game in the post 90% of the time.
Prototype (old): Kevin McHale, Karl Malone
Prototype (new): Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Rasheed Wallace

C: The center is the big man on the floor who can be a scoring threat, a defensive presence or both. He is also an adept rebounder and post up player.
Prototye (old): Wilt Chamberlin, Bill Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon
Prototype (new): Alonzo Mourning, Shaquille O'Neal


Obviously, this falls way short of what you want and the players now are far more versatile and able to cover multiple positions than they used to be, but I hope it helps.

------------------
"No one gets out ALIVE!"
SaveOurRockets.com

 

Oh man, you are talking about field percentage. You are in trouble, indeed!

If this task has anything to do with FG%, I strongly suggest you stick to eras. Ever since Chuck Daly invented the Rotation Defense, FG% have never been the same, to the betterment of the game, IMO.

 

I'll give my shot at it, with current players listed as prototypes.

PG: Jason Kidd, John Stockton
The point guard must control the tempo of the game. He must look to distribute the ball and get his teammates involved before himself. He's usually the smallest player on the team, and is not usually depended on for great scoring.

SG: Cuttino Mobley, Kobe Bryant
The shooting guard is the team's scorer. He must be a good shooter who can take the ball to the hole. He must be quick enough to run the floor.

SF: Lamar Odom, Pippen, Rashard Lewis
Being a small forward is all about being versatile. You must have the speed and the shooting to be an outside threat, but you must have the inside muscle and size to be a threat from inside as well. Many small forwards also have the ability to play other position as well because of that versatility.

PF: Dale Davis, Marcus Camby
Usually a power forward concentrates on defense and rebounding more than offense. He is usually the team's leading rebounder, and does a lot of the hustle and "dirty work". He many times ends up being a team's "unsung hero."

C: Alonzo Mourning, Shaquille O'Neal
The center many times is a great offensive and defensive player. He must have good post moves and footwork to use on offense, but also must be able to rebound and block shots well since he is the biggest player on the team. He also must be a good passer because he will be double-teamed many times because of his size.

------------------


[This message has been edited by The Cat (edited May 16, 2000).]

 

The most prototypical players I can think of are Allan Houston and Steve Smith at SG, and Avery Johnson (also Stockton) at PG.

------------------
"We're sitting there, shooting alcohol into our veins...

We could just drink it!"

-Tommy Lee

 

I look at the Jazz and think damn, if there was ever a team that just fit the protoype it would be that team. They are classical except for Byron Russell at the three. He seems to have a little less inside play than your normal SF would have.

------------------
humble, but hungry.

 

I'd suggest, if it is possible, to throw out the idea of the 'prototype' altogether. I have a suspicion that the characterization of the prototype is actually based on the game of a particularly successful player (like Stockton) and does not necessarily reflect what is typical to the position -- and therefore prototypical. Moreover, I've noticed that all the players listed above are great players and you may get a bloated idea of what FG% should be, depending on what you want to use it for.

I'd suggest (without really knowing what you want to accomplish) that you pick a date range (as HP suggests), and do a weighted average for all players at that position -- or all starters, or all players to play at least x minutes per game.

------------------
Looking for work in Houston. If you know of something I might be interested in, email me at sgafford@lexecon.com .

 

Interesting topic but I agree with JV in that it becomes hard to categorize many of the best players relative to prototype for their position.

For example, Barkley, one of the best power forwards of all time, was undersized and his defensive prowess was not among what you expect from an elite PF. Additionally though, he also was generally the floor general and best passer on his teams--he would individually break the opponents defense down and find the open man--both in the half court and in the open court. Jordon, though an "SG", also had a similar role as Barkley in that he would read the defense, though he could do it from the high-post or in an isolation 20 feet away from the basket. Guys like Magic and Robertson were guys that did far more things than typical players at their positions too. Similarly, Hakeem's quick hands and feet allowed him to do things centers don't typically do. Moses Malone was probably quicker than anyone his size until Hakeem came along too.

But If I had to put out prototypes, here is probably what I would do (I'll use two frameworks like Jeff did). Basically the difference is that "TRANSFORMATIONAL" players are position players that do things not associated with their position typically because their unqiue physical and mental capabilities--which they have along with mastering other features associated with being "classic" or fundamentally sound position players. If you are simply a "good" NBA athlete (Stockton, Mullin, R. Miller), it will be awfully hard to make my "TRANSFORMATIONAL" list.

PROTOTYPE
PG: Cousy, Stockton, Mo Cheeks
SG: B. Scott, R Miller
SF: Bird, Mullin, Worthy
PF: Malone, McHale
C: Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, Ewing

TRANSFORMATIONAL PLAYERS
PG: Magic, Payton, Francis (we'll see)
SG: Robertson, West, Jordan, Kobe (close)
SF: Dr. J, Hill, Abdur-Rahim (we'll see)
PF: Webber, Garnett, Barkley
C: Hakeem, Moses

A couple of notes, even though I would call Wilt, Kareem, Bird and Malone among the best players ever, they basically played their prototype position to near perfection. Worthy, though super quick, did not have the offense go through him enough for me to be on the TFM list. Most people may not know this but like Roberton, Jerry West was quite an athlete and had great court vision along with being a dead-eye shooter. West's game should not be confused with Hornacek or Reggie Miller's. West was closer to being Jordon-esk, than Hornecek was like West.

Also, come to think of it, as someone said Utah is a terrific example of a team with prototype players (except for the centers, where OP and Oestertag are both too offensively inept to be prototype anythings).

[This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited May 17, 2000).]

 

I looked at the question to mean, that if you went to a country that didn't have any organized basketball and you were supposed to make a team how would you put players in positions.

PG - You'd put the best ball handler

SG - You'd put the best 'scorer' under 6'6".

SF - You'd put the best shooter, around 6'7" to 6'9".

PF - You'd put the biggest toughest guy at around 6'9" to 6'11"

C - You'd put the tallest player hopefully around 6'11 to 7'0"+

-----------------------------

I have to disagree that Bird was a prototypical SF. He was that team's leader. He also averaged somewhere near 9.6 rebounds for his career, not typical of a SF.

Also McHale was not a typical PF. He was taller than most, lankier, and not the tough bulky guy most PFs are. He also had more of an offensive presence than most PFs, I believe he was the team's second leading scorer behind Bird most years.

Neither was Worthy. Worthy was more of what a SF is thought of today, a tall (he was 6'7"), athletic, scorer.


------------------
I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.