I just don’t understand this idea of Anthony Davis being a top 5 player when he hasn’t won jack ****. Over Harden and Kawhi? Give me a ****ing break.
He's honestly done nothing in his career. His accomplishments basically just including taking a team to a low playoff seed. That's about it.
Being a skilled big already sets you apart in this league where most centers are deprived of skills / techniques. This in addition to his defensive presence inflates people's perception of him by a lot. People really, really overrate defense. All of this causes people to lose sight of what is really important however, which is can he carry his team to the very end? While every franchise star needs help, they still have to be the alpha that can lead their teams to the playoffs and then some. AD has not shown this, at least with any level of consistency, hence my ridicule of anyone putting AD above players like Harden, Kwahi, Westbrook, etc. It's like my argument with a certain individual a week or so ago; regular season stats are largely pointless if you can't lead your team to the playoffs. The end goal for all teams is a championship (or top 4 pick depending on if you are rebuilding or not) and to do that, you have to make the playoffs first. Until a player can lead their team to the playoffs year after year, you cannot realistically put them ahead of even players like WB who, however flawed he is, has proven to have the ability to do so. In the end, you build teams around players who can take you to the playoffs as long as they don't get season ending injuries or injuries that cause them to miss a big chunk of the season. Keep in mind however, this is a completely different discussion / argument of which star/superstar is a better fit.
Jokic is also underrated. I like Jamal Murray - a lot - and appreciate the rest of the team is deep and switchable type guys. And that the Nuggets ultimately under performed. But they still did more, in the West, with less talent than say Philly. Not to mention Jokic played 80 games. He nearly averaged a triple double. He was 9th in apg. Don't get me wrong, I get the Embiid love. I "understand" the AD like. In terms of pure talent and impact on winning, I'd go Embiid, Jokic, AD. But since Embiid only plays 64 games a year max, if I'm ranking them based on what they actually provide, I go Jokic, Embiid, AD. There's a reason Jokic was 4th in MVP voting.
I would take Jokic over Embiid as well. He is a playmaking big whose game should age well with his career.
Part of this depends on which way he goes with his body. Will he get skinnier and healthier? Will his weight balloon? Honestly in either case injury is always a concern for bigs. But he can shoot and pass and play big offensively and rebound well enough. Heck Brook Lopez can’t do all of that and is still super super valuable. Embiid is definitely the superior talent ... if he can stay healthy and play 72+ games a year.
Duncan had a better career and was considered a greater player, but KG was more talented and much more of a matchup nightmare. He's basically a super prototype of the modern NBA forward. No real position, yet can shoot, like a wing with range and play in the post, like a big man. Run the floor and act as the team's point guard, and beat defenders off the dribble. Rebound and block shots, like an all star center. Worst of all, guard the other team's best post player, yet guard the other team's best wing scorer, regardless of height or position. He's an example of why ring counting is silly and circumstantial.
One ring n his continued pace harden will be. I stand by that. Still.dream the best but will those perimeters are meet with harden he would.be the goat..that's my stance
During the Championship era, the whole system was based on Dream as the offense fed the defense. With Olajuwon in the post and shooters spread, it put the transition defense in place to get back quickly and stop easy buckets. Then, with Olajuwon's speed beating his man down the court, the defense not only stopped the fast break but was set before the offense. This was better executed with more careful spacing in the playoffs, which is one reason why the team defensive rating shot up so dramatically. That aspect of the defense is not often mentioned, but it was all predicated on Dream's offensive threat and his speed up and down the court. The flow from offense to defense (and back to offense) was seamless in the system Rudy built around Dream. Also, if he had been one of those guys (Rodman) who eschewed any other responsibilities--like being the focus of the offense and the anchor on defense that offensive players were forced to--and only wanted rebounding stats, he would have had ridiculous rebounding numbers. But he was a total and complete basketball player. And I don't care what the analytics and stats poop out. I know one thing. Prime Dream could score on Wilt, Kareem, Russell, and Shaq and if you needed a stop against any of those guys, of all the players in history, Dream will give you the best chance. By far. That makes him the best in my mind.
I strongly believe to this day that Dream is and always will be the most skilled big man in the history of the NBA. Put him in the game today and I have no doubt he will also add a respectable 3pt shot to his game as well. He already showed it back then, albeit through an extremely small sample size.
Ben Taylor's latest Top-10 list has the following failings: 1.) Questionable analysis on defensive metrics. For example, Curry relies on being on a team of A+ defenders (Draymond, Iggy, Klay, KD) for most of his minutes on the floor. Some defensive metrics account for that, but probably not as much as they should. Curry's own team doesn't think he's a good defender. Otherwise, they wouldn't do everything in their power to keep him off certain guys or take him out of the game in late game offense/defense situations. 2.) It doesn't account for playoff opponent when evaluate playoff metrics. For example, saying Harden has underperformed in the playoffs by citing to 2016 (73-win Warriors), 2017 (top defense in Spurs), 2018 (a top-10 defense in Wolves, best defense in Utah, and playoff defense Warriors), and 2019 (again best defense Utah, and playoff defense Warriors). Comparing those playoff games against Blazers team AD played in 2018 isn't really a useful comparison at all. 3.) Curry is the only player that has ever been injured in the playoffs. Ben's list makes a point to discount Curry's dip in performance in 2016 and 2018 because of injuries. That is literally the entirety of the explanation. A more thoughtful analysis may consider that Curry simply cannot play a high-usage, 82 game schedule and then be good in the playoffs. That should probably factor into a top-10 list if you ask me.
I think we're going to see the proof of that this year. Curry and Thompson benefit tremendously from having each other on the court. Defenses are forced to focus on two guys every play, and when you have a passer like Draymond, it makes everything easy for the guards. With Thompson out and more pressure on Curry to lead the team, I'll bet he's going to take a hit this year in rankings like this one.
Yeah we already started to see it in the playoffs. Dlo should help with not burning him out, but Curry clearly was feeling the difference when he was the only guy out there.
Dream is the only guy in NBA history who had entire defenses and gameplans catered to stop him, not Jordan, not Wilt, not Kareem, not Curry, not LBJ, not Kawhi That in itself should tell you everything
Yea, it was pretty evident in that finals. But, I will say there is a reason Ben Taylor among others had him at number 1, hes not some slouch that cant do it on his own. Id say he cements himself as top 5-6 but I dont think he gets considered to be a top 3 player anymore.
Ben is a super intelligent and thoughtful dude but I think he misses the mark here. I do not enjoy the amount of excuses that Curry perpetually receives from every direction. He’s an all time great, warts and all, just leave those in.
I wouldnt say Curry is a slouch, but I think that if your measurement has him as the top player in the league, that should signal some noise in your measurements. Yet, Ben actually compounds the problems by explaining away the bad numbers with purely speculative evidence without using that same speculative evidence to evaluate other players.
There’s also no way Anthony Davis is a top 5 player. He doesn’t have the attendance and he has almost no postseason experience. He has all the talent to be the best player in the NBA and he may well live up to that but if we’re judging on what he has done, he’s woefully short. It’s like saying Carlos Correa is a top 5 baseball player. Maybe one day. But actually playing counts, and this is a guy who has legit postseason success and a ring.
