It is hard for me to say this, since I am the biggest Horry fan here, but I think Croshere did outplay Horry in the finals.But I also have to agree with Rocketexpert that Horry did drive past Croshere a number of times (not just once). Croshere is not a good defender but Horry is.Croshere is a good offensive player but Horry isn´t. But comparing their numbers and saying Croshere embarressed Horry isn´t fair since Austin got a lot of points when A.C.Green was guarding him and Indiana doesn´t have as many offensive weapons as the Lakers so he got more looks. When Horry was on the floor it was more difficult for him to score and Horry did answer back and drove by him a number of times or shot over him.I would love to have Horry back in Houston since he is my favorite Rocket but to answer Cat´s question:it would be a better move for the Rockets to pick up Croshere. Croshere is a better player overall then Horry is today. ------------------
Croshere is right now and in the future way better than Horry. Someone mentioned Croshere was nothing more than a role player, well what the hell is Robert Horry!!! Horry is very similar to Quitten in that he jumped on the back of a great player (Dream and ugh, did I just say great? Shaq) to the championship. Horry proved in Phoenix that he was no go-to guy. He is a role player and nothing more. Now as for Croshere, he is fundamentaly sound. Has played only 3 years (only 1 with meaningful playing time) and has gotten better each year. Don't get me wrong, I loved Horry when he was a Rocket. He did all the little things that didn't show up in the boxscore. But he is no go-to guy. Croshere will be in the near future. He was in the finals. He would be such a great fit on this Rocket team. Ok, here is their stat comparison for the season only (no playoffs): Croshere 81 games 23 min per 44% fg 84% ft 9.9 reb 60 blk 44 stl 89 asst 10.3 ppg Horry 76 games 22 min per 43% fg 78% ft 4.8 reb 80 blk 84 stl 118 asst 5.7 ppg Very scary how similar they are, only, Croshere is still improving. Horry is about as good as he will get. ------------------ "Get up, stand up. Stand up for your right"-Bob Marley [This message has been edited by BobFinn* (edited July 19, 2000).]
Thanks for the conversation, I enjoyed it. One thing for sure- Croshere has yet to prove himself in the starter's role, while Horry has two championship rings as a starter. Being able to beat your man one on one is a highly visible skill, but being able to shut your man down on the defensive end is FAR more important to your team. Croshere won't sign with the Rockets unless Rudy promises him a starting role, so we may find out. ------------------
Well Scottie Pippen has 6 championship rings as a starter, and Tim Duncan has 1 championship ring. Is Pippen the better player?? Of course not. Your argument makes no sense. Horry shut people down on defense? LOL. Croshere scored almost all his points in Horry, not AC Green. Green only played the opening minutes of the halves, the time that Croshere off the bench did not play. He was almost always matched up on Horry. And so were Rasheed Wallace, Chris Webber, and Cliff Robinson who all killed the Lakers. And you've got to be kidding if you don't think Rudy won't promise Croshere a starting role. He's better than any player on this team outside of Francis. Of course he will start. ------------------ Member of the pro-Collier/Langhi movement. IN RUDY WE TRUST!!
Cat, how belligerant you are becoming! Well Scottie Pippen has 6 championship rings as a starter, and Tim Duncan has 1 championship ring. Is Pippen the better player?? Of course not. Your argument makes no sense I did not make that argument. My point is that Horry is a proven starter and Croshere is unproven. You are putting words in my mouth. Horry shut people down on defense? LOL. Croshere scored almost all his points in Horry, not AC Green. Green only played the opening minutes of the halves, the time that Croshere off the bench did not play. He was almost always matched up on Horry. And so were Rasheed Wallace, Chris Webber, and Cliff Robinson who all killed the Lakers. Yes, Horry had a tough time against those PFs, because Jackson had enough confidence in Horry's defense that he did not double team Horry's opponent. I would call that a nice compliment. And you've got to be kidding if you don't think Rudy won't promise Croshere a starting role. I did not say this either. Please read what I write before you criticize. Thanks. ------------------
Sorry if I was wrong- that's just what it led me to believe. If it wasn't sorry about that. And IMO Jackson was stupid for not double teaming. That's just what got the Lakers in trouble. I just look at that as stupidity by Jackson, and not a compliment, but I can see your side of it too. ------------------ Member of the pro-Collier/Langhi movement. IN RUDY WE TRUST!!
BTW, if the Rockets do sign Croshere, I will be the idiot in the Croshere jersey, jumping up and down (spilling beer on myself) when Austin scores. See you there! ------------------
I think Croshere is a good player, and can't wait until he puts on the Rockets pj's. ------------------ please venture to atheistalliance and rocketsonline I AM SPARTACUS
sorry but i was just watching the finals again and there is only one reason Horry scores against Croshere, (and i will say he did score a fair bit for a chump), and that is because nearly all the time he was the designated double teamer or helper on SHAQ. If you watch the game he consistantly leaves horry to double shaq or help out smits, davis and perkins and that is why Horry gets to score. Croshere may not be a payton or pippen on defense but is certainly very adequate if not slightly above average. He is also an above average at boxingout and keeping his opponent off the offensive boards. ------------------ Stuff BBS, the Rockets and you guys It's all Clippers these days, come join the bandwagon and visit http://www.ClippersCity.net
Damn. I am away from the BBS for one day and I miss all the fun. Rats... (Watching to much Survivor) Ok. I have let my boy CAT go to long in this tag team match without tagging in. There is no doubt in my mind that Croshere had the better finals if compared to Robert Horry. There is also no doubt who I would rather have on the Rockets right now. The answer to that one is very easy. Croshere is simply a young gun on the rise. He is exactly what the Rockets need. How many times when Robert Horry was on the Rockets did everyone think he was just slacking off during the regular season. The man had so much potential but I guess he figured that it was not important to bring it every night. To me that is one intangable that Croshere has over just about anybody. The man brings it every night. He takes crap from no one. I don't care if you are Shaq or Karl Malone. Does anyone still remember in the Finals that one play where Shaq went for the dunk. Croshere went up right with him to try and block it. To me the guy plays defense and he hustles his ass off. He can also play offense from the inside and outside. Need a low post play you can run it for Croshere. Need a three pointer. No problem for Croshere. Need someone to finish off a fast break. Set a pick. No problem. Make a cruical free throw. You got it, no problem. FUNDAMENTALS..... Not enough players in todays game have all of the above.... Austin does... Croshere is going to be a very good player in this league. He is just beginning to show everyone his skills. ------------------ President of the Austin Croshere fan club. [This message has been edited by Dream34 (edited July 20, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Dream34 (edited July 20, 2000).]
To put it simply, this is how I see it. Horry and Croshere have similar skills at this point of their careers. However, what sets them apart is their heart. Horry is a fine player, but can get passive at times, and is not known as a hustle player. Austin Powers meanwhile, is a pure energy guy who can simply outwill bigger and stronger guys for the rebound. He is exactly what this team needs. Right now, he is a very good bench player on any team, and an adequate starter. However, Horry is in his prime, while Croshere is going to do nothing but get better. Azim da Dream ------------------ We don't live for the destination. We live for the journey.
Horry sucks. RocketExpert isn't one. ------------------ I am so exasperated that I could expectorate.
please don't let this turn into another thoughtless thread about getting Horry and Woderwick Whodes back, cause they both SUCK. Please think first ------------------ Stuff BBS, the Rockets and you guys It's all Clippers these days, come join the bandwagon and visit http://www.ClippersCity.net
Too late Smeg. Didn't you read the first post? ------------------ I am so exasperated that I could expectorate.
I am amazed that anyone can even make the statement that Horry was anywhere near Croshere in the Finals. I seriously wonder if anyone who thinks Horry did better was even watching. RocketExpert please get some tapes of the Finals and watch it again. Croshere didnt just outplay Horry, he completely demolished him. From the inside, the outside, in the hustle department; Croshere just destroyed him on so many levels. I have been in shock that there is a sentiment to bring back Horry and his 7 yr 35 mil contract. If thats not bad enough, now there are arguments of wanting him over Croshere?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Austin Croshere is better than Horry on many levels; he would be a much better fit on this Rockets team. Croshere is better in the rebounding department, is better off the dribble, hustles a lot more and is a more solid defender. Horry's game has just declined a good bit ever since he left Houston and now he is basically an overpaid, underachieving player. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
ok, so I haven't entered anything in this thread yet, but here's my take. Horry had a GREAT finals - I'm sure that doesn't surprise a lot of us!! But he hardly "drove" to the rack at all. If you watched carefully you would'v seen that Horry got to spots and got open so that when the double teams collapsed onto Shaq he could be the man to either throw up the outside jumper or get it for an easy slam. It's no secret that the Lakers had very little productivity from their 4's all year and thus no surprise that the Pacers (and most other teams facing the Lakers in the playoffs) abandoned either the 4 or Ron Harper to double on Shaq. I've watched the finals a couple of times and Horry hardly put the ball on the deck to drive when he was being defended. On the other hand, the Pacers ran plays for Croshere RIGHT AT HORRY. They knew it was a defensive weakness. They knew Croshere is bigger and stronger and faster. He scored inside. He scored outside. He scored whenever he wanted. As I was watching with my friends the point was made repeatedly that Horry was Austins whipping boy. Disagree if you like, hate Austin all you like, but watch the tapes again and see Austin go right by Horry. Ummmmm - I know you think Austin can't play defense and you'd rather Horry and that you're a long time Horry fan and that's great. But newsflash here, Croshere is a hustlemaniac and a banger and a shotblocker. Sure he "only" blocked 0.7 shots per game last year, but that was in 23 minutes. Equate that to starters minutes and he's blocking over a shot a game. For a PF that's not terrible shotblocking, especially not when combined with Cato.... ... and as far as defense goes, well I think it's well known that Austin has quick feet, anticipates well and plays solid D - a significant upgrade from KT and a much better defender than Robert (aka the revolving door) Horry. ------------------
Pile on boys- only time will tell whose opinion is correct. The fact remains that I have seen Horry drive the lane about 8 times in the past 3 years, and that was all against Croshere! (hyperbole) Anybody who thinks Austin can guard the great PFs of the Western Conference, of the quick 3s is kidding themselves, imo. ------------------
Horry had one good game against Croshere in which both players were driving to the basket and making layups. After having Horry on our team, I would think we would all know his game pretty well. Horry is not utilized the same way in LA as he was in Houston. He drove a lot more when we had him. It was good coaching strategy by LA to give Croshere back a little of what he was doing to LA's PF's. So what if Horry got by him several times. The main point I see here is that Croshere did not back down and went right back at Horry and matched him shot for shot. Overall though, Croshere manhandled LA's power forwards for most of the series. ------------------ HOOP-T ------------------
U said that Austin can't guard the great pf/sf of the league like Webber, Duncan, Malone, Hill, Garnett. Well dats true, but who can? Nobody. Certainly not Horry. I've seen the finals and must admit the Horry did something to help the Lakers but it was all Shaq. The reason why it went 6 games is because of Rose and Austin. Hell, if you put Austin instead of Horry in Lakers, we may have witness a sweep. The main thing is Austin has more potential than Horry. Horry had potential when he was with the Rocks but it was all lost. He has no fire in his heart. Austin does. He may have a hard time in playing the pf in the west but I'd still want him especially if he can excell in playing sf. If he does, then forget about Mobley and bring on Webber. ------------------
