Astros Trade option(s)

Wasn’t arb eligible at the time of the trade. Also don’t consider the A’s a rebuilding team, at least not in the traditional sense. Also, no firm indication the A’s intention was/is to flip him.

 

That trade has worked out pretty well for both teams. Treinen has been great for Oak since the day he got there, and Doolittle (who I really, really wanted the Stros to get last year) has been the same for the Nats. Madson's been a mixed bag, which pretty well defines his career.

Does Doug Jones with the Stros count? (joke)

 

You obviously have a good knowledge of baseball and specifically our system

But you over analyze things badly sometimes man

1) just because we make it known we would move him doesn't negatively affect his trade value. teams have so much info on players these days and if Giles wasn't available a week ago but now he is, it won't change what a team would be willing to give up for him.

2) most mlb teams are not in the "rebuilding" phase you mention. you have a few like Us, the yankees, red sox, indians that are mainly thinking about how a deal would affect their playoff roster, and you have a few like Miami, KC in all out rebuild mode. A vast majority of mlb teams are somewhere in the middle. There would be several of those type of teams who would be willing to take a shot on Ken Giles. They could add him and see if the change of scenery helps him improve (which is very possible), and then decide to keep him for the back end of their pen or flip him depending on what direction they want to go.

3) i keep hearing how expensive he is about to be...well one thing arbitration has shown us is saves are very valuable when it comes to relievers. that's why most back end relievers want to get the saves, that's where the money has been (hopefully this will change some soon). so with him not being a full time closer and racking up saves this year, he isn't trending towards big arbitration numbers. now if he went somewhere else and became the closer and finished with a bang, then yea he probably would get a good raise, and at that point his new team would probably be ok with it

A guy with Giles stuff and a couple more years of control would have some value to a lot of teams. Nothing like what he had when we went and got him (although Velazquez is the only one of those we could have used, and he certainly wouldn't start for us...but that's another story) but we could easily flip him to someone. In fact the more I think about it the more I think something around Giles and Britton could have some upside for both sides.

 

1. Teams do have a lot of info, but they also know the team with the most access to a player has the chance to have additional data. Are you really arguing that a contending team all of a sudden making their demoted closer available to other teams wouldn’t have any negative impact on his trade value???

2. My comment was made specifically in response to Giles being included in a Britton trade. Baltimore has one of the worst teams in history and is most certainly rebuilding in the traditional sense. They have no use for Giles unless he comes at a ridiculous discount. Again, show me an example of a traditional rebuilding team acquiring, rehabbing, and flipping a reliever in Giles’ current situation as part of s trade involving a good asset like Britton.

3. My comment wasn’t related so much to his salary, more to his years of control remaining.

 

No one is eligible for arbitration during the season. He was eligible for arbitration the first time arbitration could be offered by the receiving team. This seems a very small quibble and doesn't fit the spirit as Treinen was a guy like Giles. A's definitely weren't contending and traded a useful player to a contending team in hopes of acquiring player(s) that would help them in the future. That sounds like rebuilding to me. It is the A's. The intention is always to get value cheap, use some of it, and then flip it for profit. It has been a long time since I read moneyball, but I believe there was a chapter devoted to acquiring setup guys, installing them as a closer, and then flipping them.

Whether you disagree on some small point based on semantics, Treinen fits the bill to show that someone like Giles has been traded to non-contending team.

 

Britton isn't even really an upgrade from Giles. If they really wanted to improve the bullpen they would need to trade for someone like Hand or Vazquez.

 

Treinen was still on a league minimum salary when he was traded, not an arbitration salary. It’s not semantics, it’s facts.

More subjective, but I don’t see the 2017 A’s situation at all the same as the 2018 Orioles. The A’s do this weird thing where they kinda try to be pretty good and roll the dice every year, then if it doesn’t work, they sell at the deadline. That’s the difference between being a seller and a rebuilding team (see also the Giants last season). The Orioles are, almost certainly, entering a full rebuild.

“Treinen was a guy like Giles”. What does that even mean? If you mean a good reliever, sure. If you mean a reliever making above minimum salary for a contender coming off an epic meltdown going to a rebuilding team, no.

 

Meh.... Send Giles down or trade him to the NL, at this point I don't care. Giles has emotional problems and lacks the maturity to have an entire team count on him when the pressure is on. Maybe a fresh start or time to think in the minors will help him for next year.

Call the Marlins about Barraclaugh.... the Padres about Hand....... the Orioles about Britton...... the Mets about Familia......... the Reds about Iglesias.... the Rangers about Keona.......

 

I'm ready for the Giles experience to be over with, if for no other reason than to open up a spot on the 25 for the playoffs for someone new, and to dodge paying him $5,000,000 or whatever next year in salary arbitration.
I don't think he makes sense in any sort of sense as a 1 for 1 deal, but I wonder if he wouldn't have some value to a team like the Marlins in a deal for Realmato, as a guy they could flip next year, perhaps, for positive assets if he gets rehabbed. Not as a main piece, maybe not even as a secondary piece, but as a tertiary piece.

 

[insert Martrix gif]....What if I told you...Giles isn't as bad as some say, but also not as good as some say.

Dude is having a rough year. So what. It's Major League Baseball. Honestly, sometimes I think we forget how hard this game is because of how much success we've had recently. Giles needs to work on his pitches and get his confidence back. That's clear, but he's not chop liver. He's still better than a majority of relievers. I'd like to see him go to the minors and just get his confidence back. Yeah, okay, he's not Mariano Rivera. He's not Hoffman or Wagner or even Lidge. Some posters need to get their expectations straight. You don't just get rid of a pitcher because he's not a once-in-a-generation closer. That doesn't mean he should be cut or doesn't have a place on this team. He's a high emotion guy who's struggling. Honestly, I just wish our fans would support struggling players. It's a hard enough job as is. Like with Gomez, struggling players aren't trying to fail. Giles isn't the devil. He was a huge reason we won the WS in 2017 even if you choose to ignore that and focus on his struggles.

That said, Giles clearly can't be counted on right now. Sox are reportedly seeking bullpen help as well, so the price for a Hand/Treinen/etc. may be high but also worth it. Maybe we can have some improvement internally, but Giles' struggles really blows out of proportion our pen in general. They're having a fantastic year as a group and certainly not a weakness all things considered.

 

and there you go. great move. hopefully he comes back with confidence and shuts people up:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Astros have optioned RHP Ken Giles to Triple A Fresno and have recalled LHP Cionel Pérez from Double A Corpus Christi.</p>&mdash; Houston Astros (@Astros) <a href="">July 11, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

The Orioles won’t go into full rebuild mode until they get different ownership

They will move Machado and likely a couple others this deadline, but they aren’t going into “we aren’t even trying to compete we are rebuilding” mode.

Now I have no idea what they think of Ken Giles, BUT if someone in their front office thinks he can turn it around in a different environment, he would possibly fit their mode of get value for expiring guys but try to compete next year

Now I’ll say that personally I don’t think they have any chance to be good next year, but I’ve heard from enough people in the know that they won’t just tear it all down even though they should

 

I would be shocked, SHOCKED, if he ever throws another pitch for us again

Not with Luhnow running the ship

 

I would not be shocked. Giles will have have to earn his way back to the show.

 

Yeah, I believe in second chances (I'm sure the Vets do) but it just brings in too much doubt, pressure for a team trying to compete for another championship. It's a team game and I'm sure it would become exhausting having to answer questions.

Sending him down is just a precursor to figuring out what to do with him. He may or may not have anymore trade value, time will tell.

We need the best 25 man roster we can field, Giles isn't one of them.

 

Yea second chances are great, I’m guessing he has already had his second chance and more though

I just get the sense that Luhnow don’t want people here that ain’t bought in fully, and Giles certainly isn’t

 

Second chances? Did you catch the playoffs last year? His first season with the stros? This is a continuous trend and you have to know with a successful team around him, he has mental blocks that hurt him and them. Think of lidge after the Pujols homer , he couldn't perform as a stro but nearly won a cy young after being traded to philly. The success didnt last, but the problem was helped by a new environment and in very high string situations it's purely a mental game. You got it or you dont.

Giles never did have it, despite having the stuff. When you look solely at fantasy stats like save vs non save situations without seeing the overall picture, you prove how little you know about the game.

 

LOL....Yeah, I never said to give him a second chance. Re-read...

EDIT: Please read the full post before replying. Second time today this has happened followed by a paragraph on how little I know about said sport

 

But Ken Giles is really good yea he saved 14 of 14 perfectly. Lmao. It's been the writing on the wall dude should have been gone. That's the problem with the Astros they hold out hope they bounce back. But some never do. Brad Peacock needs to be traded as soon as you can. He is due the drop off

 

I wouldn’t be surprised either way with Giles. I think he ultimately pitches for us again though.