Astros pushed for Andy/Pettite and Clemens were "frustrated with Astros team culture"

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Oski2005, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2001
    Messages:
    18,025
    Likes Received:
    284
    The Astros tried hard to bring back Andy Pettitte

    Sorry for the delay this morning. Technical problems. So let's get right to the latest from the winter meetings:


    Andy Pettitte stuck to his pledge that he would either be a Yankee or a retiree in 2008, informing the Yankees on Sunday that he would return. But the Astros _ for whom Pettitte pitched from 2004 through 2006, and, more relevantly, who play major-league baseball in the city where Pettitte lives _ made a hard push.

    Among those who called Pettitte in recruiting efforts: New manager Cecil Cooper, ace Roy Oswalt, slugger Lance Berkman and veteran starting pitcher Woody Williams, who has a longstanding relationship with Pettitte and Roger Clemens.

    Pettitte had to be somewhat tempted. But one underreported aspect of Pettitte's and Clemens' time in Houston was their frustration with the Astros' team culture _ that, unlike the Yankees, the Astros, in the two pitchers' minds, weren't 100 percent committed to winning.

    http://blogs.trb.com/sports/baseball/blog/2007/12/the_astros_tried_hard_to_bring.html
     
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    65,089
    Likes Received:
    2,744
    Hey, Roger...don't get your ass blown out in Chicago during the WS, and we have a much better chance.
     
  3. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    15,367
    Likes Received:
    379
    They're right. The Astros are not a win at all costs organization. They are a win at a set price ballclub.
     
  4. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    65,089
    Likes Received:
    2,744

    Only the Yanks (and now the Red Sox) are a win at all cost organization...and that's only because they make a bazillion times more revenue than everyone else.

    These guys aren't in this to lose money.
     
  5. RocketManJosh

    RocketManJosh Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    5,531
    Likes Received:
    109
    Yeah I agree ... I guess the only teams Andy was willing to pitch for were NY and Boston.
     
  6. Aceshigh7

    Aceshigh7 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2003
    Messages:
    3,646
    Likes Received:
    133
    I've never understood why Drayton insists on running this organization like a business and is unwilling to play with the big boys. The guy is a billionaire by far. He could afford to spend an extra 20 or 30 million a year to really make some impacts. Hell, he probably wouldn't even take that much of a loss, because it is likely revenue would increase as the team got better, (see, Pettitte & Clemens, 2004).

    If I owned this team and was Drayton's age and knew that no matter what my family's future was secure and i'd never have to worry about money again, i'd treat this team like a hobby, and i'd do whatever it took to put us in prime position to kick ass.
     
  7. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    65,089
    Likes Received:
    2,744
    Who does that though? No one I can see in MLB.

    The Yankees still MAKE money, even despite their payroll. On occasion you will hear them say, "we're not signing this guy to that kind of money." They did it with ARod's initial offer...and they did it in the Beltran sweepstakes, when they just dropped out.

    No one just spends and spends and spends without any thought of whether they're losing money.
     
  8. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    10,601
    Likes Received:
    267
    And your team would go bankrupt.

    The Yankees spend because the Yankees have money--not because George has money. It's not that hard of a concept to understand. A business stands on its own two feet; you don't don't underpin it with personal wealth or it'll die a quick and painful death.

    Let me clue you in on how many owners invest their own personal finances into their baseball teams: Precisely zero. To expect it of McLane, or any owner, is inane and stupid.
     
  9. Surfguy

    Surfguy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 1999
    Messages:
    14,117
    Likes Received:
    803
    I'm personally shocked that we were trying to get Andy back for this season after we let him go over...what...two million and an option for a second year?

    Give it up already! Screw Andy and screw Roger. Keep them gone.

    Also, is the "not 100% committed to winning" a knock against the players, management, or both? I mean...obviously the Astros are more limited in the dollars they can spend than the Yankees. Is that what they mean in reality? The Astros don't spend enough to be committed to winning?
     
  10. Aceshigh7

    Aceshigh7 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2003
    Messages:
    3,646
    Likes Received:
    133
    Purchasing the team in the first place is an investment of their personal finances. Drayton is one of the richest sports owners in the country. Add to that his age and he could lose an extra 30 million a year for however long he has left to live and it wouldn't affect him or his children's inheritances. Actually, with the added investment in talent, revenues would almost certainly increase. We could see close to 4 million in attendance.
     
  11. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    65,089
    Likes Received:
    2,744
    The place seats 40K. Assume 41K tickets sold every game, which would mean SRO every game....that's 3.3 million fans. No where near approaching 4 million.

    No one is investing personal funds in payroll. No one. The Astros are either a going organization, or they're not. It's all a business at the end of the day...like it or not.
     
  12. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    33,038
    Likes Received:
    1,667
    Billionaire businessmen don't get to be billionaires by making stupid financial decisions.

    That would be really impressive, given that MMP's capacity is in the lower 40,000's. You'd have to fit people in aisles, maybe 2-to-a-seat, stick some on the field, etc...
     
  13. wrath_of_khan

    wrath_of_khan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2000
    Messages:
    2,155
    Likes Received:
    6
    Is this the linchpin of your argument? If so, then it's ridiculous.

    Please find me examples of anyone willing to spend/lose $30 million a year on a "hobby."

    Charity, maybe. But a hobby? Come on. That's just naive.

    EDIT: For an apples-to-apples comparison, please find examples of owners in any sport who were happy to put their own money into a team losing tens of millions of dollars. If any existed, then maybe - maybe - we could criticize Drayton for not doing same. If it's never been done before (and I suspect it has not), then why should Drayton be the only one?
     
  14. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    10,601
    Likes Received:
    267
    Purchasing any business is--at first. How many business owners continue to support their business with personal funds? Come on, how many? Name them. This is not a hard concept to understand.

    As Max and Major have effectively pointed out, the point has sailed cleanly over your head.
     
  15. Aceshigh7

    Aceshigh7 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2003
    Messages:
    3,646
    Likes Received:
    133
    Okay, I goofed on MMP's capacity, but still, there is always room for improvement, and if attendance really is that close to peak capability, we should have alot more payroll flexibility to go make waves in the market.

    The fans of Houston have done their part. It's high time Uncle Drayton does his part. We lost Pettitte over just a few million and Clemens as well. Pettitte was true to his word not to exercise his option year. Mclane is too much of a bottom line thinker. He's been that way for years and he's still that way. Portugal, Hampton, Kile, trading away Cammy and Finley for peanuts.... Houston deserves better.
     
  16. bwarren

    bwarren Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    While it is true that the purchase of a team inherently comes from outside resources, it is also true that in most instances the money will be recouped eventually through the sale of the team.

    The problem with your argument is that it is based on the premise that the owners of sports teams treat their clubs as giant toys or playgrounds instead of a business seeking to make a profit. Name me one team for which this is true.

    I'll save you the time and effort -- there is no team out there who puts winning entirely ahead of profits when the two come into conflict.

    If you want to somehow argue that the Astros could still be profitable while maintaining a payroll of 150-200 million dollars, then go right ahead. I would be very interested to see how you can defend such an argument. Instead, you want the Astros to spend like New York or Boston without the television deal or merchandising revenues of the Yankees or Red Sox.

    If you want to blame anyone, blame the sport as a whole for not seeking a more equitable sharing of media revenues, much like what the NFL has today. That would make a much bigger difference in parity than any luxury tax or salary cap.
     
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    65,089
    Likes Received:
    2,744
    You're only looking at it from the glass half empty viewpoint...along the way he's added Clemens, Pettitte, Kent, Lee, Alou, Caminiti, and paid big to keep guys like Oswalt, Biggio, Bagwell and Berkman.


    Mark Portugal??? Really??? :D
     
  18. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    310
    So if he lives another 10 years and loses $30M per year...how exactly does having $300M less not affect the inheritance of his children?

    Dumbest thing ever written.
     
  19. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    10,601
    Likes Received:
    267
    They do have payroll flexibility. They *are* attempting to make waves. The point of this thread is that they went hard for Pettitte.

    <ul><li>Pettitte was *never* coming back. It's been well-documented. As such, we did *not* lose him over "a few million". Nor did we lose Clemens over "a few million".</li><li><b>All</b> owners are "bottom line thinkers". The Yankees and Red Sox, the standard to which you seem to hold the Astros, have a substantially higher income than do the Astros. Why do you continue to ignore this? Ah, because it's inconvenient to your whining and to your agenda to bash McLane. Carry on.</li><li>Hampton had made it clear he was leaving. The Astros wisely got some talent in return rather than watch him walk for nothing. At least straighten out your facts before moaning and whining.</li><li>Kile's offer from the Astros was pennies less than Colorado's. What the Astros learned from that: they haven't gone to arbitration, not even once, since. I think the Houston fans that "deserve" something have gotten a pretty nice run of over 10 years without an ugly arbitration battle.</li><li>Cammy and Finley trade was to make room to keep Bagwell, Biggio, and other budding stars (Hampton, etc.) as there was not enough income to pay everybody. Even the Yankees let some players go.</li></ul>Got any more drivel for us?
     
  20. Aceshigh7

    Aceshigh7 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2003
    Messages:
    3,646
    Likes Received:
    133
    Because his children would still have an inheritance likely in excess of one billion dollars. There comes a point when you have such an amount of money that the exact value becomes rather moot. One billion or one billion, three hundred million can't feel much different.

    And as I pointed out earlier, the chances of actually losing 30 million every year is unlikely, due to the increased revenue having a real winner would likely bring.
     
Loading...

Share This Page