1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Astros Interested in JT Realmuto

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by mikol13, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. PhiSlammaJamma

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1999
    Messages:
    21,586
    Likes Received:
    1,798
    It's not hard to find a list of 21's that raked. Two of them our own Cesar Cedeno and Dwight Gooden. This is just some. I didn't even work that hard. These are the best, but there are plenty more who would qualify that aren't even HOF worthy. All that said this list matters little to me, it's more for your argument and case study, I'm just thinking about Martes and his relative trade value to pull in a fish of interest.

    25. Sam McDowell, LHP, 1965 Indians (age 21)
    24. Mel Ott, RF, 1929 Giants (age 20)
    23. Pete Reiser, CF, 1941 Dodgers (age 21)
    22. Andruw Jones, CF, 1998 Braves (age 21)
    21. Bert Blyleven, RHP, 1973 Twins (age 21)
    20. Bryce Harper, OF, 2012 Nationals (age 19)
    19. Frank Tanana, LHP, 1975 Angels (age 21)
    17. Al Kaline, RF, 1955 Tigers (age 20)
    16. Cesar Cedeno, CF, 1972 Astros (age 21)
    15. Mark Prior, RHP, 2003 Cubs (age 21)
    14. Eddie Mathews, 3B, 1953 Braves (age 21)
    13. Cal Ripken, SS, 1983 Orioles (age 22
    12. Walter Johnson, RHP, 1910 Senators (age 21)
    11. Vida Blue, LHP, 1971 A's (age 21)
    10. Ken Griffey Jr., CF, 1990 Mariners (age 20)
    8. Bob Feller, RHP, 1939 Indians (age 20)
    6. Joe DiMaggio, CF, 1937 Yankees (age 22)
    5. Mike Trout, CF, 2012 Angels (age 20)
    4. Johnny Bench, C, 1970 Reds (age 22)
    3. Ted Williams, LF, 1941 Red Sox (age 21)
    2. Dwight Gooden, RHP, 1985 Mets (age 20)
    1. Alex Rodriguez, SS, 1996 Mariners (age 20
     
    #61 PhiSlammaJamma, Feb 11, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  2. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    30,896
    Likes Received:
    8,966
    Uh, what is this list signifying? What is it ranked by? And why are there batters included? He was asking about MLB pitchers at age 21.
     
  3. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    37,929
    Likes Received:
    2,090
    Reminds me of the even more pointless data that Carlos Correa apparently doesn't hit really long HR's.
     
    Nippystix, bobrek and BigM like this.
  4. awc713

    awc713 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,574
    Likes Received:
    904
    So...Martes doesnt measure up to Arod, Ted, Bench, Trout, DiMaggio, Griffey, Ripken, or Walter Johnson. Time to cut his ass!
     
  5. Major

    Major Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    33,575
    Likes Received:
    2,077
    I think their point is that most GMs are smarter than you and don't look at him and see low-trade-value because he struggled in the MLB at 21 year olds like just about everyone else does.
     
  6. PhiSlammaJamma

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1999
    Messages:
    21,586
    Likes Received:
    1,798
    He asked for the list, and I agree, it's useless. I just fulfilled the order because he didn't want to do his own homework.
     
  7. PhiSlammaJamma

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1999
    Messages:
    21,586
    Likes Received:
    1,798
    Smart GM's sell high and buy low. Anyone getting Martes now would be buying low and that is smart. But his value on the market is low.
     
  8. PhiSlammaJamma

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1999
    Messages:
    21,586
    Likes Received:
    1,798
    You wanted the list, not me. I just fulfilled your order for what amounts to irrelevant data. Why did you ask for it exactly?
     
  9. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    30,896
    Likes Received:
    8,966
    Oh it's most certainly useless, considering nobody knows what it's a list of.
     
  10. PhiSlammaJamma

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1999
    Messages:
    21,586
    Likes Received:
    1,798
    Exactly. I don't know why he wanted it. I just gave it to him. The rankings are just simply in order of the best under age team you could build. I reckon he wanted to see if you build an All Star team of 21 years olds. Which you can. And you can have a pretty good rotation too.
    It's a list, as he requested, of 21 year olds who excelled in the majors at that age. Don't ask me what he wants to do with it. That's on him.
     
    #70 PhiSlammaJamma, Feb 11, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  11. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    13,284
    Likes Received:
    1,561
    Guy (now at Fangraphs) that left Braves front office during this off-season has Martes value about that of Alvarez or worth a little than one year of Realmuto. If Martes wasn't likely to fail, he would be worth more than Realmuto by himself.
     
    No Worries likes this.
  12. PhiSlammaJamma

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1999
    Messages:
    21,586
    Likes Received:
    1,798
    That's fair. It's an assessment that has merit. You just need more to make it a fact.
     
  13. Major

    Major Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    33,575
    Likes Received:
    2,077
    Except it's not, because GMs are smarter than you.
     
  14. mikol13

    mikol13 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Messages:
    5,675
    Likes Received:
    3,276
    We should have cut/traded Bregman too when he started 2-38 or whatever it was.
     
    No Worries and awc713 like this.
  15. awc713

    awc713 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,574
    Likes Received:
    904
    The llist exemplifies is that—not only is it extraordinarily rare for a 21 y.o. to thrive—but that players who don’t fall on that GOAT list still retain value. Players don’t lose all modicums of value because they don’t project as HOFers at 21 or 22.

    99% of 22 year old prospects struggle. Yes, many eventually become Brandon Wood or Jon Singleton and lose all value. But .5 seasons in at 22, Martes clearly still has value.

    Players not on that list still have trade value. Which was my point. You can **gasp** struggle in your first year or two in the majors and still be a valued commodity.
     
    texans1095 likes this.
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    22,773
    Likes Received:
    7,444
    Martes looked like a 21 year old with exceptional stuff but with poor mechanics.

    If he improves his mechanics he has a very good chance of being special.
     
    texans1095 likes this.
  17. PhiSlammaJamma

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1999
    Messages:
    21,586
    Likes Received:
    1,798
    But how do you know that? If you are GM I will most certainly bow down to your experience and wisdom, as you have inside information. Or you are a Cardinal exec with Lunhows password.
    My case would have been not to trade Bregman at 2-38. I agree with you. Right? Because his value would have been lower at that moment than it is today.
     
  18. raining threes

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,401
    Likes Received:
    335
    True, but as a 21 year old pitching in the majors I thought he did a good job as a starter when the team needed him the most. As a reliever he was either really good or really bad. Like most young pitcher, he had issues repeating his delivery. You know who else had mechanical issues, Sandy Koufax.
     
  19. pw1993

    pw1993 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2018
    Messages:
    309
    Likes Received:
    134
    Realmuto ranks as the fasest-running catcher in MLB at 28.6 ft/sec. MLB average for all positions in 27 ft/sec and for catchers it's around 25.8.

    In Astros context, Realmuto would be the second-fastest baserunner on the team behind only Derek Fisher, who has been clocked at 29.1 ft/sec

    Realmuto stole 8 bases last year and 12 the year before. This is one thing to weigh in any prospective trade, esp considering McCann ranks absolute last (#62 of 62) in running speed at 23.4 ft/sec. Evan Gattis, surprisingly, comes in at #25 of 62 at 26 ft/sec

    https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprint_speed_leaderboard?year=2017&position=&team=HOU&min=10
     
    arkoe likes this.
  20. SS0101

    SS0101 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    328
    Uhhhhh...to be fair the argument was centered around pitchers. He used Kershaw as his 21 year old example of pitchers coming in right away and performing to their potential. Then you throw out this list that is about 70 percent hitters when the argument was clearly about pitchers. Then you start pretending like this list is exactly what he asked for.

    Dude...the point is there are not many pitchers who come in at such a young age and dominate. In fact it is a testament in itself that he even reached the majors at such a young age. Someone recently put out a list of where the recently graduated prospects would rank if they were still prospects and martes would still be considered top 50.

    It is totally conceivable that martes could be a headliner in a deal for a guy like realmuto. It just depends on what the marlins want.
     
    Blatz, BigM and texans1095 like this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now