I pulled this off the Realgm ticker. It is kind of in our face, but has some interesting tidbits regarding the inner-workings of what has since been a much-discussed trade: Nets: Scoring big on draft day Thursday, May 29, 2003 BY DAVE D'ALESSANDRO Star-Ledger Staff To know how bad the Nets had it just 23 months ago, one must remember this: Jim McIlvaine and Evan Eschmeyer were their centers. But that wasn't all of it. The future of Kerry Kittles, who sat out the 2000-01 season with a mangled right knee, was unclear. Their solid rookie, Kenyon Martin, broke his leg again. And, of course, Stephon Marbury couldn't stand Keith Van Horn. Weighing these personnel factors, Rod Thorn went into the 2001 NBA Draft looking for bodies, which is what any general manager of a 26-victory team desires. And you can't get that with one pick, which was all Thorn had just a week before the June 27 drawing, unless you are imaginative. "In no particular order, we wanted a center, a small forward, and a two-guard," Thorn said. "And we didn't feel strongly about anyone at No. 7, or think anyone would be good enough to have (instant impact). We already knew we'd get Jason Kidd (in a prearranged trade) after the cap changed. So our feeling was we had to get a better base, and that Jason would make us better." The Nets' future turned with a single phone call from Houston Rockets general manager Carroll Dawson in the late afternoon of June 22, 2001. Dawson, who had three first-round selections, had charted how the top six would fall, and he and Thorn agreed Eddie Griffin of Seton Hall could get snatched up by Golden State at No. 5. That would be fine with Thorn: It would leave Jason Richardson, a coveted shooting guard, available to be taken by the Nets. On June 25, Dawson called back. "But if Griffin is there at seven," he offered, "we'll give you 13 and 18 for him." "Make it 13, 18 and 23, and you have a deal," Thorn countered. "I need all three to give up No. 7." Dawson thought about it for two days. He even thought about it as the first six selections were made. The Nets were on the clock when Dawson tried one last gambit: "Give us your second-rounder, and we have a deal," he told Thorn. "No," came the reply. "Three for one, and that's it." So Thorn picked Griffin anyway. Seconds later, Dawson acquiesced. That is how the Nets parlayed Eddie Griffin -- a player they didn't really want, but the best talent on the board -- into two starters, which is more than you can ask for out of any draft. Richard Jefferson was selected at No. 13, Jason Collins at 18, and Brandon Armstrong at 23. GMs get lucky sometimes. But getting two players that will be in the Nets' lineup when the NBA Finals tip off Wednesday is more than Thorn ever could have wished for. Just ask Jefferson: "I guarantee you if Houston knew that it was going to work out this way, they wouldn't have made the trade," he said. "Eddie's going to be a good player, but right now it's working out better for us." "Not only did we get players, we got depth," coach Byron Scott said. "Richard was the guy I had in mind all along. We worked him out, I loved him, (chief scout) Ed Stefanski loved him, Rod loved him. We were all on the same page as far Richard was concerned." Actually, Jefferson's workout for the Nets hadn't gone well because of a sore ankle. Collins worked out for the Nets' brain trust in Chicago, and looked out of shape. But they were all in agreement: They didn't like Griffin enough to not do a deal. "If you remember, at Boston (summer league), R.J. had a ways to go," Thorn said. "But we didn't bring Johnny Newman back, so he was thrust into the spot, and he was going to get minutes unless he fell on his face. So he came to veterans camp clearly improved. And when we drafted Jason (Collins), we were hopeful he'd help us out as a backup, but who knew he'd develop into a starter? I didn't. That's why we signed Todd MacCulloch in August. We didn't have a clue." No clue? "Rod's pretty good at what he does," said Dennis Lindsey, the Rockets' personnel director. "Obviously that deal has been a real coup for New Jersey. But don't forget: Eddie Griffin hasn't turned 21 yet, and his development will be judged on that same time frame as guys like Jermaine O'Neal. Some big guys don't usually find their niche until they're 25. So we went into this with a long-term view." As for the rear view, just think: Jefferson and Collins could be (gasp) Texans right now. Not Spurs or Mavericks, mind you, but Texans nonetheless. "Actually, that would have been a dream come true, to play in Houston: I have family in Texas, I'd get to play in Phoenix twice a year and in L.A. four times," Jefferson said, referring to his two hometowns. "Really, it would have been great." "Initially, you're just happy to be drafted," Collins said. "Then when you hear you've been traded to the Nets, you remember their reputation as 'The Clippers of the East.' But I was ready for it, it was fine. My dad's family is from New York. And then, sometime in July, we were told that we were going to get Jason Kidd, and that really changed my outlook." Right. And New Jersey suddenly became Xanadu. "Something like that," Collins said. http://www.nj.com/nets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1054190106276700.xml
Poor Rockets. We were outsmarted once again... I would be willing to give up Eddie G, Boki and our 2nd rounder this year straight up for Jefferson. Funny thing is, Jefferson is on the Olympic team and we dont have a single guy representing.
Well they worked out Richard Jefferson. Although he had a sore ankle and didn't look great, they wanted him. Guess what........WE DIDN'T EVEN WORK OUT EDDIE GRIFFIN...and we traded 3 freakin 1st round picks for him. And look at him. Look at Eddie Griffin.................... Hmm...Richard Jefferson would have liked to play in Houston. That sounds cool. Anyways....because of this trade, we sucked and we got Yao Ming. So I am satisfied. Also....Richard Jefferson would be just like Eddie Griffin if he ended up in Houston. Jason Collins would be exactly like Jason Collier... Well... It was a dumb trade. Hopefully Eddie will improve next season under a new coach. How did we have 3 1st rounders last last year?
im not happy with eg's development but i still think the trade was the right thing to do. we didnt need 3 first round draft picks. we didnt need to get more young. we didnt have spots on the roster for 3 draft picks. jefferson would have been nice and the athletic sf that always eludes houston but collins would have just replaced collier on the bench. cato and yao are better. the armstrong fellow wouldnt have made it out of camp.
I would trade Griffin for Jefferson straight up. Not a DIME more. Griffin's going to turn out the better player, you'll see.
I wonder when in this process Doc/Clutch got their scoop. I remember the prediction to look out for the Rockets doing a deal with New Jersey. Obviously, it was contingent on Griffin being on the board at 7.
Come on folks, his rookie year Eddie dropped our jaws to the floor on plenty of occasions w/ the sick blocks. He showed plenty of potential. Seems like this year he had a bad year on and off the court. Give him another year, and if he downgrades again, then call him lazy, a bust, or whatever. But at least wait til then.
Why is everyone still stressing that it was 3 for 1? That year we were capped out, Les didn't want to pay luxury, and we didn't need 3 picks. I sincerely believe that we would've traded our last 2 picks for nothing just so we wouldn't be tied up with cap problems. We tried to move the picks and move up, that's what every gm would be trying to do in the Rox's situation. We got a young foward that drops our jaws with his athleticsm, who can't even buy beer because of his age, and who can hit the 3 (stop comlaining, 33% from behind the arcs is pretty good for anyone who shoots threes regularily). It isn't a bad move, it was an calculated personel decision. It worked out really well for the NJ Nets right now, but it didn't work out bad for us at all. In short it was a great move for the nets, but its still a good move for us.
I love the concept of trading 3 lower picks for a higher pick. However, the Rockets did not workout Eddie Griffin before the draft because they never thought he would be available. Instead they relied on the so called "experts" who projected him to go Top 3, possibly even #1. There's a reason he fell to #7 as teams just didnt think he was as good as advertised so we scooped him up. There's no substitute for Due dilligence. We didn't do it and are now paying the price. Unless Eddie totally shocks us, I expect the same lackluster performance. There is no reason a 19 year old player does not improve unless he doesnt get to play, is injured or lazy. We should trade Eddie ASAP before he becomes completely worthless. Like us when we drafted him, someone might take a chance on an unknown product and see some potential because of his youth.
I still stand by this trade. Collins and Armstrong are basically garbage. Eddie Griffin would be entering his 4th year of college right now if he stayed at Seton Hall. I'm sure we're all disappointed by his lack of progress, but he's still got time to change. Here's a thought...imagine the kind of numbers James Posey would get playing for the Nets - probably equal to, or better than RJ. So it's not like Rudy T would have used RJ as anything more than a bad 3 point shooter. He would stand around on the perimeter on this team, waiting for Steve or Cuttino to pass him the ball with 3 seconds left on the shot clock.
richard jefferson on the rockets would not be the same richard jefferson we see on the nets. obviously, jason kidd makes him look better -- the same way he made shawn marion look good on the suns. who knows how jefferson would have turned out on the rockets. i'm guessing on the rockets, he would have sat on the 3 point line and jacked up 3 ptrs all day even if his shot is horrible
It was a good trade for the Rockets, Griffin was the better player and you never past up a chance of getting a player some thought should have been the #1 pick in that years draft. Anyway Griffin will come around.
Im interested in knowing who thought Eddie Griffin should have been the #1 pick. 6 teams passed on him, NJ didnt want him, so at best he wouldve been picked 8th. There are very few surprises by the time the actual draft takes place. Teams that worked him out must not have been very impressed with him. Whether it was his play or a perceived immaturity, who knows. It's rare when a supposed #1 pick drops to 8th or below. I think it's interesting that the team that eventually picked him didnt work him out.
Scrutinize the trade all you want, but here's my take: I'd rather have Eddie Griffin and Yao Ming than Richard Jefferson and Jason Collins. And that's the way it goes, my people. If we wouldn't have had Eddie pulling flat 3-point jumpers and not learning the inside game, we wouldn't have sucked enough to get a #5 slot in the lotto and eventually go on to draft the Great Wall. I'm pretty damn happy about the way things worked out.
How goes it JBC? Listen,I was ecstatic when we dealt for him,as you know and I haven't lost my faith in Eddie now.TMac was playing garbage time while he grew as a player and learned the NBA game..Griffin has been handled differently,playing minutes against stud Western Conference fours and fives.I believe that his talent has been masked while he grows. The guy has been protected on the outside,shooting threes...The Rockets have given him a mix of the fire and coddling.Plain and simple,if everyone would be a bit patient,I can see Eddie turn into a star.It seems to me that he plays his best ball,by far at home presently.EG's game is inside and he plays with great instincts on the defensive end.Bring him along , let him grow into the 4,and trade MoT.I agree with Baqui 100%.There is no way I would want Jefferson for the long haul over Eddie.....way too much upside...the combination of finesse and timing that EG owns is special.He'll find his offensive game,but let him put on the lbs.With both Yao and Eddie our interior is set for years.
Man, why do people keeping bringing this trade up!!!? Jefferson and COllins are good because of 1) Byron Scott and 2) Jason Kidd (especially for Jefferson. Is Jefferson a productive player than Griffin right now? Yes. Does Jefferson have a better cast and support system than Griffin? Yes. If Griffin actually played with Kidd, he could be an all star right now. I like Jefferson alot but I don't think its right to call EG a bust just because he has had a lackluster sophmore year. If you surround EG with some actual veteran leadership and give him a true point guard, he'd be snatching up all star votes along with francis and Yao. Wait atleast another 2 years before you compare the trade again.
Interesting observation.... But then again, the Rox could have drafted myself and I am sure my airballs would have given us the first pick (Yao). I think most on this board would take Yao and myself over Jefferson and Collins.. Point being, although your assessment is true, the fact is that if Eddie does not improve, we wasted a 6th round pick that could have been a star (Jefferson). There is truth with the benefits of playing with Kidd but I dont forsee the arc of his jumpers rising even if the ball was past to him by Kidd or Magic Johnson... Its time for Eddie to step up or else it will be another Rox draft mishap...
Man, this b****ing about the Eddie trade has become my biggest pet peeve on this board. It's true...if you look at some of the early mock drafts, Eddie was definitely the #1 pick in the draft until the obsession with high school players kicked in. He was the best big man prospect coming out of college that season, period! You really think a workout would have kept us from taking Eddie? Tall, long, athletic...I doubt the Rockets would have been unimpressed. What do you think they were going to deduce in the workout that would have changed their minds? 10.8 rebounds per game (top five in all Div. I) 4.4 blocks per game (led all players in NCAA) 17.8 points per game ...all this as an 18 year old freshman. To those who are bad-mouthing the trade, did you give two ****s abouts the later two draft picks (Armstrong and Collins)? No? Good answer, cause we didn't have room for either of those two players and we wouldn't want them anyway. The Nets were just about the shallowest team in the league at the time...they were in desperate need of depth. Some of you are making it sound like the Nets made the trade simply because they believed Jefferson would be better then Griffin. Not ONE GM in the league would have taken Jefferson before Griffin...not a single one. At the time, the Rockets undoubtedly made the right choice, and any GM in their position would have done the same thing. Using 20/20 hindsight to criticize is pretty lame. Besides, I think it's a little early to give up on Eddie.
