Are the deaths of Americans more important than those of another country?

Jazz fans have no souls, so yes

I would say a serious criminal's life is worth less (murderer, rapist)

 

Personal hierarchy of impact of deaths. I'm not religious, nor am I racist enough where their life and death impacts me.

1. Me
1A. Immediate family members
3. Close friends/relatives







4. Casual friends/relatives



5. People I know only somewhat



6. People in the city I live in.
7. Americans
8. Everyone else

 

No man is so strong that he can't be murdered by a group of others, or so smart he can't be poisoned or stabbed in the back. The creation of society has it's roots here, so it is no suprise that we are value our own over outsiders. There is an enlightned view somewhere out there that we are are all part of the same group, homosapien, but you will find very few who see the world this way.

 

Boxing match:
- Do you root for the best boxing style, or root for the person that resembles you most?

 

For me it's more the indirect impact on my own well-being more than anything else. For example, people in Houston getting murdered means more to me because it effects how I feel about going out at night, more tax dollars going to the police department, that sort of thing. Or that US soldiers dying matters more to me than other soldiers because it affects foreign policies, nationalistic feelings among the masses, etc.

So in terms of "do I shed more tears for American blood than others", the answer is no. But there is something to be said about proximity/nationality having more of an impact on each of our lives, regardless how much we care for these people in general.

 

I'll be honest here. I used to value the lives of people of my countries and religion more than others. I even used to care about poverty among Muslims more than anyone else.

I completely agree with what you're saying. The lines are artificial. Ultimately, the only people I value more are the people whose value I know. So basically there's a stranger and there's my brother - I would probably place more value on my brother because I know him more. I wouldn't disagree with the stranger's brother if he placed more value on HIS brother. It's just a matter of who I know - that's what makes it more valuable to ME, but not necessarily more valuable to the rest of the world.

I've often wondered why there isn't more outcry when people in the Africa are killed thousands at a time. It happens very often, but we don't do much about it.

Would you rather save 3,001 people in Rwanda or save 3,000 people in your own country?

Although there's a tendency to go after the people of my country, I think that's a tendency that I have to learn to ignore. At the same time, it would be difficult to ignore such a thing if I actually knew one person in that group of 3,000.

But since we're talking about deaths (past), then I would mourn the 3,001 more than the 3,000 (assuming all civilians), while mourning the specific people I knew separately.

To me, your nationality is nothing more than a legal necessity. You didn't choose to be born in a specific place and you didn't choose your parents. You didn't have an identical set of options as everyone else. You are who you are because of the things you choose and control. Patriotism is good, but it shouldn't be unconditional. You should be proud of your country if your country is doing things which deserve your praise - just like how your country will jail you if you do something wrong. It's a give and take - nothing is unconditional.

I think it's hilarious that the drawing of a border one or two centuries ago may immediately define part of your personality today and creates a difference between you and someone born 10 km away.

With that said, the surprise element of 9/11 played a huge role in its significance. Many people needed closure immediately and needed to blame a clearly defined enemy to achieve that closure. I hope that as time goes on, victims of terrorism worldwide are treated with the same respect and dignity as those who were lost on 9/11.

Eliminating our focus on differences is very important. Do you think the 9/11 pilots would be as willing to go through with it if they felt that they were attacking people who were similar to them? What role do you think 'differentiation' played in their heads? What if they though they were attacking like-minded people instead of very clearly distinguished enemies?

It's not that difficult. If an alien were to examine you and Osama Bin Laden, it/he/she would probably determine that you two are the same. So imagine how similar you are to everyone else. Imagine how tiny and exaggerated the difference between Canadians and Americans, Pakistanis and Indians, Palestinians and Israelis, Algerians and Egyptians, and so on and so forth. But these people are constantly jostling for differentiation. Bleh.

To me, everyone is human, and everyone is of equal value, except that I owe some humans more than others hence increasing their relative value to me.

Ok I'm done blabbing.

 

I would easily put my parents and immediate family's life above mine. So mine would look like this:

1. Immediate family
2. Me
3. Friends
4. Other family


5. Acquaintances, like the old man that says hi to me in the mornings
6. Country
7. Others

We've evolved that way to keep our genetics strong. You hear all those stories about onlookers watching someone get beat up by a group of thugs and everyone's surprised no one helps. Frankly, I'm surprised if someone does. Conversely, if the guy getting beat up is anywhere above no. 4, most people would risk interfering. It's just genetics.

 

It's a good question - but it's human nature: The closer it hits to home, the more one cares, because the degree of identification and possible personal impact increases.

I cannot find the cartoon, I saw it offline many years ago, so I can only describe it with words.

Someone reading the newspaper:

50,000 people killed in Africa (yawns)

500 people killed in neighboring country (yawns)

Someone got killed in my street (FREAKS OUT)

 

No.

No.

As rhino17 pointed out, Jazz fans (and Lakers fans for me) are worth less than Rockets fans.

I don't think the lives of people close to me are more important (generally) than the lives of any other people, but they are more important to me.

 

What Steve_Francis_Rules said.

 

Similar to what ATW posted, most other people are outside of our monkeysphere, and become faceless numbers. In other words: the closer it hits to home, the closer it hits to you.

 

Yes, the lives of Americans are more important to me personally. They may not be more important in the grand scheme of things, but to me they are. Why?

Because we share more in common than I share with someone in another country by default. We pay taxes to the same government, we are impacted by the same laws, we (in theory) pull for the same common good, we work amongst each other, etc. As for the 9/11 reference, those Americans could easily have been me, my wife, my mother, my best friend etc. The target wasn't human beings, it was American lives. When an African rebel butchers a village he is a monster, but nothing about me is involved in that. When a mass murdered kills a bunch of people in America he is a monster and I could easily have been one of his victims.

 

Sorry, but borders are not almost random lines over the globe. I don't pay attention to violence outside my immediate lodging and work areas and potential areas. The death of a few Canadians is not going to bother me, but the death of a neighbor will me concerned.

On the issue of importance and not concern, yes the death of an American is more important than the death of an Iraqi.

 

I also question how many Americans in here who say they aren't more important are being honest. I don't know a single American personally that wasn't stressed when 9/11 happened. If you care as much about the entire world's population as you do Americans, you should be living in constant sadness as lives like that are lost around the world consistently.

It doesn't make you a bad person to have more of an attachment to Americans than Nigerians or Germans or Colombians.

 

This is actually kind of thought provoking. If I know the boxers (interviews and stuff) I'll root for the one who's personality I like best.

But if its a random fight with guys I don't know anything about, I'll root for an American fighter over a foreign born....A Texan over a fighter from another state. Underdog over a favorite. But all those other things being equal I would root for a white guy over a African-American or Hispanic boxer.

I don't normally think of myself of being race conscious so this was a little bit of an eye opener.

 

I'm with you on all of them except the last part about rooting for white over others. When it comes to fighters, if I know nothing about them and nationality and such is equal, I will base my decision on 1) Rooting against the one the other people at the fight are rooting for and if that fails 2) the one who is the most aggressive.

 

Really? I'd say it's simple human nature to go with what looks familiar. It's like when people get upset over Europeans making Jesus white way back when. If a given entity (the church, in this case) needs an image for the people to rally around, the image needs to look familiar to those people, which makes perfect sense.

In other words, I think we are ALL race-conscious. We might like to pretend that we're not, but that's just not reality. It takes a higher level of thinking and consciousness to admit, accept, and take steps to make sure one isn't consciously or subconsciously subscribing to negative imagery or stereotyping.