Neat lil article: http://www.msnbc.com/news/928298.asp No outrage over foreign wave Fans whine about high schoolers in NBA, but what about European teens? COMMENTARY June 18 — We’re a bunch of hypocrites, that’s what we are. We raised a fuss two years ago about the NBA swooping in to grab the American high school players in the draft. We thought it was evil and bad for the game and bad for the kids. But now that the NBA honchos are zeroing in on the fresh faces from overseas, we shrug. • Get Life Insurance • eDiets Diet Center • Yellow Pages • Get A Loan • expedia.com • Shopping TEENAGERS WITH LIMITLESS vowels in their name from Croatia, Russia, and Italy are coming to work here. So where is the righteous outrage? NBA draft • GLIER: NBA mock draft • NBA draft headquarters • GLIER: No outrage over European teens • GUOKAS: Milicic no lock to be a big success • WP: Foreign flavor • Cavs get peek at LeBron • NBA draft busts • GUOKAS: LeBron will face challenges as a pro • More on NBA Just look at Darko Milicic. He’s a green teenager from across the pond. He’ll go second to Detroit and he turned 18 on June 20. There’s not a peep of protest. Now look back at the draft of Kwame Brown, Eddy Curry, and Tyson Chandler in 2001. And what about Amare Stoudemire in 2002? They were viewed as misguided youth; black kids with no place to go and no hope. They and their advisers were ridiculed as greedy; the players ridiculed as stupid for not going to college. There was a gauntlet of protest from coast-to-coast from columnists and radio talk shows. These days, all silence on the righteous front. The foreign players in the 2003 draft are viewed as prospects with just a thin layer of inexperience to saw through to get to a finished product. Maybe when the target is white, not black, fewer people take aim. It could be that we know so little about these kids hopping over from their semi-pro teams in Prague, Rome, Barcelona, that we could care less about them. We don’t want to be their guardians or step-dads. Just let ‘em play. They won’t go to our colleges and play in March Madness, so who cares? Why don’t we think the same thing of the ’01 kids? It seems a little two-faced to care about the sanctity of the precious NBA game when it’s black teenagers jumping in right from high school as opposed to white-skinned, or light-skinned foreigners from places we can’t pronounce. The best argument is that the foreign players are more ready than the American high school player. After all, the foreign teenager plays in a semi-pro league against men, supposedly as early as 16. Poland’s Maciej Lampe, who is likely to go in the top 10, played for a professional team when he was 15. Maybe these international kids are more mature. We’ll see. It’s hard to imagine them getting much playing time in the NBA when they don’t even start for their club teams. So the next time there is a lament from the NBA that players are too young for the league, ask why they don’t include the foreign players in the debate. If Podkolzine or Lampe make an impact within three years, I’ll change my mind. The foreign presence isn’t all bad. Borders have been crossed and the NBA draft is a deep well of talent. There is size and athleticism. I think Nick Collison is a terrific player, the third best player in college behind Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade, but the Kansas forward may not go until the 17th or 18th pick. That’s how loaded this draft is with players from the U.S. and other countries. Advertisement Of the 29 players who will be taken in the first round, almost half could be non-U.S. born players. Look down the draft list and you will see one sterling point guard after another. Aside from T.J. Ford, the lead guards in this draft have some size and can defend in the backcourt. There is also plenty to choose from for the new glamour position in the NBA, the 6-foot-9, 6-foot-10 small forward, the Dirk Nowitzki’s. Lampe is a 7-footer and considered athletic enough to face the basket. Milicic is a big with feet. On top of all that, the foreigners offer the NBA some renewed hope that the center position still counts for something. Podkolzine, the young Russian, eats space and has some hands. Zaur Pachulia from the Republic of Georgia is 6-foot-11 and 19 years old. Just remember, if Mississippi high school star Travis Outlaw goes in the first round save your ridicule. He has just as much right to be there as the kids from Europe.
In many cases, the instances are different. Young kids in Europe experience, on the whole, much more hardship than do American teenagers. They have been through more adult-like experiences at a younger age, making them (theoretically) more prepared for the NBA mentally at a younger age. After all, just look at Milicic's story - his mom had to sell the family car to buy a cow to have milk for the kids, he had to leave home at 14 to make a living, and so on. LeBron James? He's lived in the lap of luxury for the past several years, learning little about the adult life. As for Travis Outlaw - he has no basketball skills, he's just an athlete. The European players, on the whole, are fundamentally sound. They can produce more for their team at a faster rate than their American counterparts, and having a sound fundamental base, are generally safer selections. Does the writer even realize in his statement about the European players not starting for their club teams that many of those teams keep their best NBA prospects on the bench in an attempt to keep them in Europe? It's one of several ignorant statements in the article, which doesn't appear well-researched. It reminds me of the battle between the sabermetricians and old-time scouts as portrayed in Moneyball, where in this case the writer of the article definitely falls into the latter category. For those of you unfamiliar with the book, that's not a good thing. I think it's articles like this one that serve to keep race relations closer to the 1960s than to a truly integrated society. There are no racial undertones here, at least none that I can justify.
Europeans are very fundamental!! That's why no one complains...and they start playing professionally like when they are 14 years old! And they do talk about their age as well. There's one European guy..."Baby Shaq"...HUGE...long name...S.S. He's black and European. He just turned 18!
Black teenagers going into the draft at 18 is a lot different than Europeans going into the draft at 18. The black kids have been playing and displaying their talents against, well, kids. The Europeans have been playing against men since a very very young age. And why is should race be an issue? Their will be a few black international players coming over. Hell OUR favorite player was from a different country. Anyways if this writer wants to turn it into a racial thing why doesn't he tell us about the uproar when their was a white player that jumped from high school to the pros.
I really, really hate when people try to play that damned race card all the time. Not every white person in the U.S. is a cracker racist with a KKK hood and robe hanging in their closet. I think that the Euro's are ready to play when they get here because......... 1. they play with adult professional players from a much younger age and when you play against difficult competition, you either improve or find another line of work. 2. Team skills are encouraged over there more, because most players have a soccer mentality of cooperation to score goals, rather than going one on one. It has nothing to do with white people/black people. A lot of these black high school athletes are duped and used by these scumbags who see a meal ticket. A lot of them get bad advice and think that their ascent to NBA stardom is a foregone conclusion.
1. That's not exactly true. Most high shcoolers talented enough to go into the NBA have played against college and even pro guys in the summer leagues. 2.That doesn't really effect the age. It's true that not all whites are racist clan members, and I don't think that was the point of the article. At the same time to deny that racism exists isn't helpful or accurate. Sometimes people don't even see racism or don't think about it, much like with the comments about players ages going into the NBA. Clearly there has been a distinction made. Was it done with malice? I don't think so. I think it was just something that was done innocently, but is a mistake nonetheless. Recognizing occurences such as these, shouldn't be seen as condemnation, but a chance to learn and improve.
Remember what happened to the Cavs when LeBron came to just shoot some hoops at their facility? Fines out the whazoo. These Euros play in the pro leagues from an early age since they don't have the college athletics structure we have here, which almost acts as a defacto basketball minor league. I think that the skills of these high schools will not improve until they are matched with players of better abilities. What basketball really needs for us is a true minor league system where players are drafted for potential (like in hockey or baseball) and can be promoted to the big club or demoted back to the minors. I'm sure the NBA player's association would scream bloody murder, but this would be a great solution. I'm not saying there is racism in the country, but I think it really gets blown out of proportion.
I think its a little racism when people look at this issue. Baseball players , tennis and golf protege's have been in pro sports way before they are ready. I do agree that european teenagers are more prepared for the nba than american teens. Why? Those guy at a certain age if their good enough, they don't got to high school, they go to club teams. On those club teams and according to age and skill , they progress with proper schooling. Instead of practicing 3 hys a day for 30 or 40 days, those players work on shooting,passing and dribbling drills for 4 hours a day on top of running plays and stuff like that. Thats another reason why the euro's are so far advanced in basic hoops vs americans. Look at a guy like Ming who came over at the age of 21 and compare him to a guy coming out as a senior and the gap is very wide fundamentally. I don't think its a black or hite issue, just the issue of being prepared which brings me to the nbdl. If the nbdl was a true developmental league, the nba would have a much better product. If every team in the nba had a nbdl team with their own coaches and player assignments, the nba would be very,very good. Some of these players coming out of high school whom teams know aren't ready, if they could go to the farm team and learn the plays and work on certain things, when they come up they would be better prepared.
True, but do they end up better because of it compared to the International players? It's all about the structured training the Europeans get vs "shoot arounds" and "playing time" the US H.S. players get. It's not the same thing. Playing time does not develop your fundamentals. Coached training, and repetition develops your fundamentals. And most American H.S. players don't like to "practice" the boring stuff. They rather get playing time at shoot-arounds.
Just so you guys know, this is the man who wrote the article: May or may not change a few perspectives...
While 2 is debatable #1 is. . THE AMERICAN PLAYERS ARE PROHIBITED BY STATUTE IF NOT LAW from doing this WE WILL NOT ALLOW OUR PLAYS TO EARN MONEY PLAYING SPORTS UNTIL 18 AT LEAST By the way . .. did Tony Parket finish high school? I MEAN DO YOU KNOW AND NOT JUST GUESSING OR ASSUMING! The 20 yr old limit will knock out more Euros than Americans Rocket River
What do you know about Lebron James before the money? before the hype? what do you know about the AREA of town he grew up in? Next to nothing. . becuase it is not good TV . . his life has only RECENTLY been gravy . . . from what I have read. Rocket River
this is the truth ruth! We americans .. will say our ballas are not prepared but WILL NOT let them be prepped like Euros [i.e. practicing 4 hours a day all year round] The Rules of the NCAA and UIA [youth sports groups?] prohibit that style of preparation Not to mention grades and cannot get money etc. Rocket River It is racist . . per se. . . just a blind spot
A lot of you are missing the point. The main argument against US players entering after high school is that they are too young emotionally and intellectually, that they need to go to college and not be stupid. The foreign kids often quit school even earlier than the US, yet there is no problem there. Yao didn't go to college, and yet everyone talks about how smart he is. Wouldn't happen with an American player. Personally, I like it when they don't go to college because it is less of a lie. Maybe about .001% of all professionals actually went to college. Icehouse, This also works when considering the white baseball players who get drafted as kids out of high school.
Baseball players and Hockey pros have the minor leagues. That's the difference. Baseball has always had the minor leagues and has never drafted mainly from college. On the other hand, the minor league for the NBA has always been the NCAA. The fact is, most of these high schoolers and even 1 and 2 year college players are not prepared for the NBA, and the game suffers. Even guys such as Kobe and Tracy McGrady weren't ready to play their first couple of years. The question comes down to, "Do I, the paying fan, want to spend the outrageous prices to see guys who aren't prepared for this level of competition yet?" The answer is a resounding no. So for me, a black man, the problem is I don't want to see a bunch of crap basketball from a bunch of guys who have a lot of talent, but no understanding of the game. And personally, I have been enjoying watching the European influx because the know how to play the game. So it may be a racial issue to you, but the simple fact is that if the NBA doesn't improve its quality, and this is an issue that has to be addressed, the golden goose is going to die, and no one will benifit.
Whoa, I wasn’t trying to get into a racial debate (even though I probably should have known better). I just thought it was an interesting article. I have been seeing more articles like these as of late (one was in the Wall Street Journal about 2-3 weeks ago). I don’t think the writer has a valid argument when comparing our kids to foreign kids, because situations outside of America are totally different. Then again, I do believe our kids could be just as mature about playing pro ball at an early age if there were a system set up for them to do so, where they could have all the time in the world to practice, play against better comp, etc. The success of minors in golf, tennis and baseball has shown me that this is true. I do think it is hypocritical to complain about those b-ball players going pro (for the $$ or for the comp) when kids in other sports in this country can do it with no problem. I do think its hypocritical to complain about our 18 yr olds going pro here, then drooling about an 18 yr old from another country. I keep hearing that their (foreign players) fundamentals are so much better, yet when they get to the league, they still need a few seasons to fully develop, just like our (American players) high school kids that are going pro. Actually, a lot of the top players in the game today are American kids that came out early at some point. I agree with the writer that it’s hypocritical to not make a fuss about drafting all these young foreign kids (who still are projects) and then trip about drafting our own (who just happen to be black). I don’t think race has much to do with it though, especially considering that outside of this country minorities are the majority. Now if you want to get into race having something to do with how minor sports are looked at and accepted in this country (baseball/football vs tennis, golf, hockey, etc), then my opinion changes.
And neither are most of the foreign players. Besides Yao and Tony Parker, which foreign player came into our league and made an immediate impact? Every one that I can think of still needed a season or two to get better, whether it was via sitting at the end of an NBA bench, playing a crappy first season to get “used” to the game (Dirk) or playing overseas for another yr or two (Manu).
#1 is. . THE AMERICAN PLAYERS ARE PROHIBITED BY STATUTE IF NOT LAW from doing this WE WILL NOT ALLOW OUR PLAYS TO EARN MONEY PLAYING SPORTS UNTIL 18 AT LEAST That's not true. We just prohibit amateur athletes from earning money playing sports. If you're willing to give up your amateur status and someone is willing to pay you, there's no statute prohibiting it.
Icehouse, I wasn't replying to you, just an opinion in general. I would propose that the NBA set up a true minor league like baseballs, in which major league teams can send their players who aren't ready for the NBA because its clear that college is just not an option for a lot of them. They simply do not want to be there. The fact that Europeans get to play professional at young ages is a difference, but that's not going to change here. We can't dictate what obligations kids have to meet in Europe and we can't change rules here in the U.S. just so kids here can compete with them.
You're right about that. And I will agree, that race may have something to do with it, but I think most people just feel that American players have an option, college, where they can hone their skills and get an education, and are upset because both the NCAA and NBA are suffering.
