Rocket River Yes, from my perspective, Othella Harrington has been more consistant than Shareef. Shareef still puts up the numbers, but at times, he seems to be too intent on passing the ball, almost to a fault. Other times, he isn't that noticable, but then he'll erupt for 12 in a quarter. He doesn't get to the line as much as last season. He did put up ten double-doubles in the first 10 games, but he didn't play like he used to. He seems to be lacking in confidence (I don't know why), just like Bibby. Othella, on the other hand, had two bad games at the beginning of the season (foul trouble), but since then he's been great. He's been noticable, his hustle is amazing, and his shot seems to be unstoppable. I felt that the Grizzlies should have given him the ball more last game, as Barkley didn't seem to be able to stop him. Don't get me wrong, Shareef is definately one of the top players in the league, but I think the losing has got to him, and although his numbers are up fairly significatly (points down slightly, but 4 more rebounds and an extra assist than last season), he just hasn't seemed to play really well. I also think he turns the ball over way too much.
Shareff Abdur Rahim is not that good of a player like his stats show. He is SLOW! Like i said he was and he has no defense. Hmm.. reminds me of the Wizard. Bullard was tearing him up.
Cabbage I appreciate your blunt honestness, and I can't agree with you more on Francis's actions. Francis3 Francis may think he's a PG, but just like Iverson, he can easily play the 2. He may or may not be a shoot-first player, but he sure as hell can score. Also, a little extra passing on a team never hurts. I wouldn't have a problem with a backcourt of a PG who puts up 13 and 7 along with a PG who puts up 18-20, 7, and 7. Francis is an Iverson-like player. He says he plays "Steve Francis basketball," but the NBA player he's most similar to is Iverson, and he has thrived at the 2. I see the point guard argument as just a feeble excuse to get out of Vancouver: First, he said it was too far from Grandma. Then, he said that it rains too much. Then, he said that it was too cold. Then, he said that they took a lot of his money. Then, he said that he would have much of an opportunity for endorsements in Canada (see: Vince Carter). Then, he said that he'd play in Vancouver, and could live with all the setbacks. Then, either he or Jeff Fried dawned on an even greater excuse, Mike Bibby plays point guard, and even though Francis played the 2 at Maryland, he could only play the 1 in the NBA, so he couldn't play on the Grizzlies. So now he wouldn't play in Vancouver. You have absolutely no idea about all the crap that went on between Francis and the Grizzlies to the time he was traded. That also included a news conference that apparantly had nothing to do with Francis's desires to leave Vancouver, but was mysteriously cancelled on the day of the trade.
You see, I don't see a big deal in saying that a city is cold and rain too much. No one is forced to like Vancouver. You Griz fans should be grateful that Francis didn't say anything bad and mean after he kicked you guys ass, also the Grizzlies got something real like the Big O. Dikerson and a first round pick back this time, unlike we got 3 role players for an all star in the Pippen deal, there is no need for the Griz fans to boo FRancis all night long. Francis didn't owe you anything, you guys got paid for your own mistake which is lucky. Francis didn't spit on the teammates to get out like Pippen did, there is no comparison between him and Pippen. He stated he wanted to play at point before the draft, not shooting guard, so basically you guys asked for it. Before I fell for the propoganda that Francis is a selfish guy, but I can't say he is selfish after I saw him handled himself well, if you don't agree with me that is fine, at least you don't need to see punks like Mario Ellie shove it down your throat. Stu Jackson drafted 3 point guards to build the franchise which is stupid, he shoud have picked Lamar Odom instead of another point guard, he sucks and you guys should fire him. To sum it up, you guys drafted a player knowing in advance that he doesn't want to play for you, drafted a player that doesn't fill the team's urgent need in the front line, and got paid for your own mistake. shouldn't you feel lucky instead of hatred and throwing tomatoes? Look at Bibby and Antonial Davis, what did you guys got from them so far? There is nothing to complain about Francis, so peace.
Grizz, The fact is most of us DO know. That's what's so nice about the latter-half of the 20th century... communication is near-instantaneous with the Internet and all. We can go online and read Vancouver papers. Francis is not the first and probably will not be the last to say he will not play for a particular team. I agree what he did was wrong "ethically" and he directly/indirectly insulted an entire city through his actions. However, from reading Usenet and the Grizzlies newsgroup, several (and I do mean SEVERAL) Vancouverites said that Steve had told Stu Jackson and Brian Hill that he did not want to play for Vancouver; that it would be best if they did not draft him. With Lamar Odom on the board who cares if you lose Steve Francis?! As for the fact that he didn't want to play in Vancouver because of the city itself? I doubt it. Things such as taxes, custom, and playing time probably did have more to do with the decision than anything else. Why do I say this? Several former-Grizzlies left Vancouver for tax reasons. Othella Harrington basically said that as long as Vancouver is where it's at (Canada) it will always have problems attracting talent and have the stigma it currently possesses (there is another thread on this BBS with the article links). This is not a knock on the people or the city itself, it's just fact. Unfortunately for Steve, he chose to openly state it, and combined with the fact he was a rookie and no rookie in the NBA had ever done this before, made him look like the Dark Force of Evil. The kid is a great kid from listening to his former coaches and from looking at the adversity he overcame. Why should I think otherwise? I, personally have nothing against Vancouver and love the city from what I've heard and seen and wouldn't mind visiting some day. Hakeem Olajuwon has gone on record as saying it's one of the most beautiful cities in the world. It's just that the city has "the stigma" attached to it when it comes to NBA players. ------------------ Rocket fuel pumps through these veins...
Welcome to the BBS GrizzFan. I appreciate your commentary and I agree with you 100%. The sad thing is that when all is said and done, no one but Houston fans will even remember that Pippen was ever a Rocket, and it will be much the same with Francis in Vancouver. I understand you frustrations and dislike of Steve, but I'm sure as hell glad he's on my team. As far as throwing things goes, while I would be greatly embarassed by the action and the way it would represent Houston and the fans, I cannot honestly say I would be sorry if our beloved Snottie Quitten was hit in the head by oh, say, a bulldozer. ------------------ Proud Cheerleader 'til we move to New Orleans 302
To tell the truth, the only thing Francis did wrong is that he didn't try to be a phony. In politically correct words he was not "diplomatic". If he had said anything like "Vancouver is the most beautiful city in the world, Stu Jackson is the greated GM in the league, and Bibby along with Rahim are the upcoming hall of famers..." and followed it up with any reason to leave. The outcome will be completely diferent. The lesson for Francis is: Kicking ass= Humiliation, Kissing ass+Kicking ass= Neutral.
I think if Francis performed poorly or the Rockets lost the game, judging from the hatred of the Griz fans, he and the Rockets would have been crusified on their boards right now. On the contrary, we Rockets fans are consoling Griz fans instead of saying they are suckers. It just shows the civilness of us the Rockets fans you know, the Rockets organization is classy and so are their players and fans. [This message has been edited by Finalfantasy (edited December 01, 1999).]
Grizfan, I find that your analogy of Tim Duncan being drafted by the Rocks in your first post is quite lame. Frist of all, the similarity that links it with Francis should be Ducan being forced to play small forward, not power foward. Francis can be a good shooting guard, but he thinks he is better at the point. Ironically I wanted him to play sg too, becuase he was shooting the lights out and turned the ball a lot in the preseason, but now he is improving so there is no external factors that make him have to play sg. He is a pro and he knows what is best for him, and we should respect his choice instead of saying he is selfish, actually I might do the same thing if I am to be forced to play a position that is not ideal for myself. Adding the fact that advance notice was given to the Griz management, it must feel like being shoved down his throat to be drafted and told to play an unideal position. You don't force people to do things they don't want to just because you happen to be in a favorable situation, in this case owning the draft choice. Consequently, Francis is the victim here and he has been demonized because he didn't try to be sweet, to be phony, to be diplomatic and all that shiet. I hope you tell all those Griz fans that hate Francis to come to this board and let's talk it out to prevent any further aminus.
FinalFant: On the contrary, we Rockets fans are consoling Griz fans instead of saying they are suckers. It just shows the civilness of us the Rockets fans you know, the Rockets organization is classy and so are their players and fans. You just contradicted yourself. GrizzFan: Classy of you to indicate your displeasure about the tossed salad. Most here seem to agree that booing Stevie was cool. I think that he is very young and probably quite spoiled. With his skills, he's probably been the center of attention for a long time. He is not as bad as others (like Iverson..he's still a jerk). Some of Stevie's actions show a basically good person, just immature. The most disturbing thing that I read was how he rudely refused a Grizz Jersey after the draft. That was very disrespectful, and probably embarassing for the Grizz staff (okay, so I'm a softie). Us Rockets fans remember how far the Dream has come. Early in his career he was a hothead and would get tossed for fighting (other teams would send in their biggest bench-warmer to pick a fight). I think Stevie will mature well, as well. FWIW, Vancouver is a visually stunning city. Why do ya'll let a young rookie get under your skin...eh?
Hey Cohen, do you have a hard time grasping my name? It's an easy name to remember as Final Fantasy seires are the greastest games ever made. Now, first you addressed me as "Fantasy" in another thread, then now it has become "Finalfant". don't make me modify your screen name too, it won't come out nice I promise. Besides, what the hell are you talking about that I contradicted myself? I merely told the Grizzlie fans why they shouldn't hold a grudge against Francis, I recall I only called Stu Jackson a sucker, not the Griz fans, didn't I? Please clarify. [This message has been edited by Finalfantasy (edited December 01, 1999).]
FF...Soooo you mean to tell me if Francis was chosen 2nd by the Rox, and he refused to play for the Rox, and go as far as to poke fun of Houston through ESPN commercials, you'd be cool with it???? Please. The Pippen and Francis issues are the same. Both wanted out, they just chose different avenue's to get what they wanted. Pippen jacked on one player...Big deal, it happens all the time in professional sports to include team mates (see all of Barkley's 3 teams) but dissing a country is way out of line. I completely understand why Canadians and Grizz fans are upset. But don't agree with throwing stuff on the court. I certainly hope that when Pippen comes around, he gets his fair share of boo's and rants, but I sincerely hope not seeing a display like Philly or Vancouver last night with horrible fan actions.
TDS, I would place most of the blame on Rudy and Dawson if we put things under the context of Francis' case. The reason is stated in posts above. Blame the right guys instead of the victim is all what I am saying.
Vancouver's beautiful, but how are the titty bars? .... and do they have fresh clean smog like we do down here?
Grizzfan- Good initial post. I do agree that what Steve did was wrong to you guys, but it is just an example ot today's professional athlete. Remember good-guy John Elway pulled the same stunt to get to Denver. What Steve did was wrong, but it is accepted in today's world.
FinalFantasy: That Steve plays point guard or any argument of the like is absurd. When Francis declared for the draft, it was with the knowledge that he was putting his future in the hands of chance. Where he gets picked, is his luck. Same with all players. Why does Francis get special treatment? In this case he was lucky, because by having enough talent he was able to force a trade. Very lucky. When you're on a team, it doesn't matter what position you want to play. You're on the team, do what the coach tells you. Francis made the situation even worse by his comments about Canada. And yes, this is the exact same thing Pippen did. It doesn't matter that Scottie might have ripped teammates, while Francis didn't. Same situation...a player quitting on a team after that team put in a load of hardwork to reel him in. If I wasn't a Rockets fan, then judging from this action of Francis' I would too have agreed he was a spoiled brat like the media intends to label him. Accept it.
FinalFantasy (better? But you can call me Coh anytime ) I did not misquote you; I copied directly from your post. Re. the...oops, sorry...regarding the contradiction, your post laid accolades of civility on us all, yet the post itself was lacking.
FinalFantasy: I think you made an excellent point! It is true that the Grizzlies never paid Francis a dime, so what are they so uptight about? On the other hand, Snottie Pimple was almost immortalized by the Rockets and the city of Houston, gave him the fat contract that he was looking for and he didn't even earn a dime of it. Vandy's only excuse to be angry is that the guy will be a superstar someday in this league and they don't have him. That's not to say that we aren't angry we don't have Snottie anymore, either. [This message has been edited by BlastOff (edited December 01, 1999).]
Cohen, well, thanks for giving me back my name, but somehow I don't see why my post lacked civility. If you insist to think so, fine, we are civil people, I won't throw tomatoes at you or boo you all the time like the Griz fans. Stu Jackson could choose Lamar Odom and Jonothan Bender, in fact, if he did that they won't be down 3-11. The reason he chose Francis is that he underestimated Francis's personal will, thinking he could push Francis around because he is a rookie. He was wrong, and seriously wrong. Francis showed courage to stand up for himself, and fought for his best interest, the only part he mishandled is that he didn't show enough patience. The lotery draft is designed to get a bad team better, in contrast to Antonial Davis and Mike Bibby, from which Vancouver has not gotten much return. The Francis trade did dramatically improved their strength and depth. So what's all the fuss about, Francis fulfilled his function as a draftee for the Griz, while he got only humiliation in return. Cabbage sorry can't agree with you there, individual willingness always exist in any team and rightously so. For example, all players, regardless being a rookie or not, should do what the coach tells them to do, yet at the same time if they don't agree with the coaches' policy, they have the right to bolt. Pippen did that but he mishandled it in the worst way, so that's another case. Hakeem requested a trade as he was insulted by the Rockets management, and if Shandon Anderson requests a trade as he thinks the system doens't fit his talent, he has the right to do so. I won't blame them for that. The same rationale applies to Francis as well. [This message has been edited by Finalfantasy (edited December 01, 1999).]
GrizzFan, I know the Chronicle article you are referrring to. I was embarrassed for Houston when I read that article. Usually the Chron's sports editorials are heavy-handed in the tongue-in-cheek stuff, but his generalizations about Vancouver (snow? c'mon) showed the same lack of cosmopolitan savvy that Francis is guilty of. I wanted to point out that though Francis dissed Vancouver, the Grizzlies came out of the situation in good shape. I'm sure you are enjoying the play of Othella Harrington. I know I'm jealous he's not in Houston. Dickerson's in a slump, but he's going to be good too. I hope that nobody throws things on the court when Pippen comes to town. I'd like to think Houston fans are too cultured to do such things, but I know it is not the case. And the situation will no doubt be exacerbated by our bad season.
