American Jewish Leader and Former Exec Director of AJC on Gaza: "Slaughter of Innocents" [video]

There have been a number of moderate Rabbis that have spoken out against Israel's war crimes. Much to the dismay of their terrorist minded extremist Rabbi counterparts in Israel and New York.

 

I am not sure why you threw NY in the mix. There are many moderate Jews and Rabbis in NY. While it is true that a majority of Jews in the United States support Israel, I have also met a number of Jews with either no opinion or are critical of the current situation in Israel.

 

You got to love those brave people who stand for what's right despite the pressure

 

http://youtu.be/WWyGlTDkT5A

 

It was interesting that his words seems to imply that he doesn't recognize Palestine as a state. He referred to them as Gazans or Palestinians in Gaza.

 

As a Jew, it is actually extremely difficult to criticize Israel's actions in the Gaza strip. It just feels... wrong. Not only do I face the ire of many of my Jewish friends who are staunchly Pro-Israel, but I am going against years upon years of education.

I grew up learning about and celebrating the existence of the Jewish state in Israel, and my several trips to the country had only reinforced those beliefs. I used to be a fervent Israel supporter, and I would denounce any arguments that disparaged Israel's war policies without even giving them credence.

But ardor can only take one so far, and after reading many, many articles and listening to dozens of arguments, I was able to slowly come to face the truth: Israel is in the wrong.

Yes, I still believe in Israel's right to defend itself--they are under constant attack, after all. And in no way do I support Hamas in the slightest. But Israel is taking the conflict too far and is needlessly slaughtering too many innocent civilians for me to support.

This quote pretty accurately reflects the bind myself and many of my friends find ourselves in due to this situation.

"As a Jew, I was taught that it was ethically imperative to speak up and to speak out against arbitrary state violence. That was part of what I learned when I learned about the Second World War and the concentration camps. There were those who would and could speak out against state racism and state violence, and it was imperative that we be able to speak out. Not just for Jews, but for any number of people. There was an entire idea of social justice that emerged for me from the consideration of the Nazi genocide.

I would also say that what became really hard for me is that if one wanted to criticize Israeli state violence - precisely because that as a Jew one is under obligation to criticize excessive state violence and state racism - then one is in a bind, because one is told that one is either self-hating as a Jew or engaging anti-Semitism. And yet for me, it comes out of a certain Jewish value of social justice. So how can I fulfill my obligation as a Jew to speak out against an injustice when, in speaking out against Israeli state and military injustice, I am accused of not being a good enough Jew or of being a self-hating Jew? This is the bind of my current situation"

 

More Muslims speak out against terrorists (like Hamas)

I wish even more did...

 

You should never be afraid to speak out against oppression, hatred, and murder.

 

The full interview is excellent.

Addresses:

- Criminal actions of Hamas.
- His experience living under Nazi rule.
- Whether Hamas would serve in a government that recognizes Israel.
- The terrorist history of the IDF, which is identical to present-day Palestinian resistance.
- Israeli political parties' views towards recognition of Palestine as a state.
- Could Hamas/IDF have avoided the present conflict? How?
- How would Israeli civilians behave given the same conditions as Gazans?

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The nice thing is that you will hear dissent from the Israeli/Jewish side, and people are free to voice their opinion. Freedom of speech - something Hamas and Islamists do not respect.

 

He has american citizenship and he lives in London, otherwise he would be detained in jail until he die in Israeli's prison.

 

Nope.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Siegman

U denials obsessive behavior is getting out of control

 

What does his wikipedia entry have to do with your inaccurate statement that he would be in jail in Israel? How old are you?

 

I am NOT pro Israel whatsoever, but Hamas has put themselves in a position where they have to be obliterated wholly. And if they hide behind children, schools, young women... then they have to go as well. Because of Hamas. Only way it ends is when Gazans see how pointless Hamas is and start a mass exodus to other arab nations - WHO DO HAVE THE RESOURCES to help out.

 

Islamists certainly don't respect it, but plenty of Palestinians do, and plenty of ethnocentric Israelis do not. No one is doing anyone there a favor by thinking in these black and white terms.

When you say "Hamas and Islamists" you say it as if that represents most Palestinians, just as many hasbarists make the claim that "Israel and the IDF" represent some high standard of value of human life, when the truth is, many don't. The standard has been in decline since the 67 war, dropping hard during the Lebanon war in the 80s and continues to decline, but that's a different discussion...

I got to meet people like Aziz Abu Sarah and sit at a bar and drink with them and ask them tough questions off the record and about his background. This guy, as an example, grew up a Fatah activist and threw rocks at soldiers in East Jerusalem before becoming a peace activist. He operates a tour agency (which I highly recommend) that operates a "multiple narrative" tour agency that takes people to trouble spots and provides dual narratives of the same events.

He did this documentary for National Geographic I really like. As short as it is, he covers the conflict and travels with and interviews protesters, Israeli soldiers, Gazans, and even settlers. It's very different than the propaganda videos people post here:

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He recently wrote a good piece about the two prevailing myths (often copy-pasted here) that the only obstacle to peace is Palestinian violence and that the prime goal of Palestinians is to eradicate Jews. I recommend reading his response to that (I'd quote it, but most won't read it anyway). I was always taught that, never questioned it, and my own experience certainly had that presumption challenged.

It's really sad that Palestinians and Israelis like him aren't the ones being copied and pasted in abundance, but they are out there, despite the best efforts of organizations like National Geographic and George Mason University to give them opportunities to be heard.

Educated, rational people who aren't cherry-picking arguments to support an ethocentric or idealogical confirmation bias just don't sell very well.

 

Perhaps I misunderstand you and I'm not supposed to take the bolded sentence literally, but in case I am: you do realize that from observing the Iraq war and numerous other conflicts that the Hollywood idea of just killing all the bad guys and then you win... it doesn't work that way in these insurgency/guerrilla warfare situations.

-You kill a bunch of bad guys.
-The survivors, brothers, fathers, sons, are driven to extremes through their grief (and also likely from living in a war zone that offers no escape from poverty and destitution, no education), and thus they are primed to become
-A new generation of extremists.

However, if you meant that Hamas would be obliterated when they are rejected by the Palestinian people, I'd mostly agree.