Oops. Make that 177 per year for 24 seasons. Counted a couple line items where he spent time with more than one team in the same year.
To say that "in his prime that Biggio was every bit the player Rose was" tells me you are clueless. Did you ever watch Rose play, because if you did you wouldn't be making such a statement. You want to compare their prime yrs? Rose/Biggio 25 .313 vs .295 26 .301 vs .277 27 .335 vs .287 (Rose won the batting title) 28 .348 vs .318 (Rose won the batting title) 29 .316 vs .302 30 .304 vs .288 31 .307 vs .309 32 .338 vs .325 (Rose won the batting title) 33 .284 vs .294 34 .317 vs .268 35 .323 vs .292 Rose won rookie of the yr. ('63) MVP Top 10 Rose '65 6 '66 10 '67 10 '68 2 '69 4 '70 7 '73 1st '75 5 '76 4 '81 10 (at the age of 40 yrs old) Biggio '95 10 '97 4 '98 5 Rose was an all-star 17 times vs Biggio 7 times Rose won 2 golden gloves vs Biggio 4 times No way Biggio was the player that Rose was. If you want to keep on believing that he was that's your choice.
Why do you bring up the least valuable stats baseball has to offer? There is a lot more to baseball than batting average and popularity contests.
Not saying Biggio was better, but he did steal twice as many bases. Biggest difference between the 2 players IMO is their K-BB ratio. Rose blows away Craig.
Pete Rose was not in Craig Biggio's league in the area of pretending to get out of the way of a pitch when he was actually swinging his armored elbow out into the path of the pitch even further.
Thank you for making my point! "Only" avg 177 hits for 24 season? You know how many times Biggio had over 177 hits in a season? Five times in twenty seasons. Didn't do it until his tenth season. Rose had over 200 hits TEN times.
Oh, I wasn't arguing Biggio vs. Rose. Only the biggest Biggio homer ever can say he's better than Rose with a straight face. My original reply was to the person who said you could have 200 hits for 20 years and still not break the record. Ichiro wouldn't be all that far away if he had started playing in MLB instead of in Japan, for example.
Sure... Rose/Biggio 25 .351 vs .358 26 .364 vs .378 27 .391 vs .373 28 .428 vs .411 29 .385 vs .406 30 .373 vs .386 31 .382 vs .415 32 .401 vs .403 33 .385 vs .386 34 .406 vs .388 I used on-base percentage, if that wasn't obvious. And as you can see, despite Rose's decided advantage in batting average, Biggio still reached base more often and, as a result, scored more runs (1,056; 1,047), which is why he leads in oWAR (52.2 to 49.6). (Likely helped by his decided advantage in SBs: 306 to 72.) (Note - if you use OPS, it's split right down the middle, 5/5 - Rose won ages 25-28 and 31; Biggio 26-30.) So did Jerome Walton... While I certainly think MVP votes can be relevant... I'm not sure expanding it to top 10 means much. Rose finished nearly 300 votes behind Schmidt in '81, for example. Rose was a high-profile, much-revered player in his day (much as Jeter is now - and not without merit) and I'm sure more than a few of his vote totals were inflated as a result. For instance, his MVP year, he had not one but two teammates post better WARs (Morgan and Seaver) I think the much greater accomplishment is Rose’s WS MVP. I don't think seaclubber's the one with his fingers jammed in his ear, yelling, "NAHNAHNAHBATTINGVERAGENAHNAHNAHI'MNOTLISTENINGTOYOU!!!" As he said initially, while Rose is better, it’s closer than people seem to want to believe, as your post clearly indicates.
