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A reasonable request?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by oakdogg, Apr 10, 2000.

  1. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

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    With the Rockets playing so well and showing their potential, this probably isn’t the best time to talk about improvements to the team in personnel, but what the heck. The Rockets have got what seems to be a pretty strong nucleus. Anyone following the team though probably notices that our strength is completely weighted in the backcourt and are obviously lacking something in the post. NIKEStrad pretty much summed it up when he said: “All I want is a big man who'll grab rebounds, and average enough points that he's a threat down low, so teams don't just guard the perimeter, and are forced to guard a man down low too.” in another post. Add a strong post defender, able to run the floor, and young enough to fit into our future plans to that description and you have what I would like right there. As far as rebounds and offense go, most good PF's grab at least 8 rebounds and shoot close to around 48% (basically close to 50), so that quantifies the description a little better. Let’s go ahead and assume that the big free agents like Duncan or Webber aren’t going to come here, which is the most likely scenario. My question is how rare are these players that would match this description – are there any sitting on some team’s bench, lost in the shuffle (besides the soon-to-be highly paid FA B. Grant)? Is it likely that the Rockets would be able to grab a guy like that without getting rid of one of our core guys, who I would venture to say are Francis, Mobley, Anderson, Cato, and Moochie (cuz I like him) either through the draft, trades, or free agency? I guess a related question is am I undervaluing Thomas’ abilities? He was supposed to be strong on offense when he was drafted, but I haven’t seen him make half his shots in forever – that 40% FG% is pathetic for a PF. Not to mention, his D hasn’t been that strong. Could Thomas ever develop into a player that matches that description?

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  2. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    I say this "Reasonable Request" should remain reasonable. Suggest something that can be had for our draft pick or for drew/tmass. Save the big trade talk for other threads.

    Donny Fortson is lost in the shuffle. Fourth leading rebounder last year...huge man. Pitino won't play him, because he is committed to that loser Walker.

    Foyle is another one with loads of defense, but less offense than Cato.

    The Clippers have a 7'er good friend of Cato--Closs (sp?). He's a bean, but a shot-blocker. Would be useful off the bench. We might get him for Drew alone.
     
  3. Azim da Dream

    Azim da Dream Member

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    Good points oakdog. I'm beginning to realize that this team definately needs a PF/C more than a SF at this point. As you all have said, someone who can demand enough attention in the post, play solid D, and bring some rebounding tenacity to the table is what this team needs. Fortson is one, so is Foyle and B.Grant, and another player who some percieve is just a scrub but I feel can make a contribution is Chris Gatling. He is a free agent this summer and while he isn't neccessarily an impact player, he is a solid vet who works hard and brings all the aforementioned qualities to the table. The thing is, is there an impact PF/C the Rocks can realistically attain in the market this off-season? And asides for K.Martin and maybe Fizer, is there even one in the draft? And how much of an upgrade would some of these players be over K.Thomas or Cato?

    Azim da Dream

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    True champions do not take their failures to heart and never let success go to their heads.

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  4. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

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    Man, it just looks like there aren't many power forwards manufactured with those kinds of specs. It's easy to say we just need a young role player who can grab rebounds, play strong D, let the defenses know he's there on offense, and at the same time be able to run the floor and keep up with this fast group, but it's not that easy to find players that fit the bill. That said, some interesting players have been mentioned:

    Kurt Thomas - he fits the mold the best IMO (though he is 28), don't know if we could get him, Knicks need a PG, but Drew is a stretch

    Chris Gatling - he's perfect, except he is kind of old and I would think Denver wants to keep him

    Joe Smith - could fit the bill. Not saying the Rockets could get him, but he's an example of a player out there that has the qualities we're talking about.

    Danny Fortson - heypartner, you seem to be pretty high on him since you've mentioned him a lot in various threads. As one of the most knowledgeable posters on this board, what do you think he brings to the table that Kenny doesn't? His specialty is rebounding, but I wouldn't say Kenny's lacking in that department. Danny's listed at 6'7, which makes him as undersized as Kenny. Is he still a superior defender? Also, what about offense, does Danny have any skills?

    John Wallace - everybody was talking about him after the Knicks game. He gets no PT with Camby and LJ there. He was mentioned in that Mo Taylor, Othella H. three way trade a while back, so it's not like he's not expendable to the Knicks. He's cheap too at like a $2M salary. Still, he seems to have the label of all O, no D, which doesn't exactly fit what this thread was originally looking for. Drew's still may be a stretch.

    Tim Thomas - isn't he a SF? I like him though. I doubt we could get him like UTBaller said.

    Adonal Foyle - DrNuegenbauer turned me off of him in a previous thread I started, "use $2M exception on a center." He made some good points. Basically, he said Foyle was an undersized defensive specialist with absolutely no chance of being adequate on offense. I haven't seen enough of him to know otherwise.

    Keith Closs - He seems like strictly backup center material from the little I know about him, but maybe he could fill the role (doubt it)?

    Gary Trent - mentioned in another thread as a good PF who might be expendable in Dallas. Don't know much about him, but his rebounding doesn't look too good. Plus, he's a Maverick, so his defense can't be that great either.

    I don't know about the draft. Is it common for guys like this to be available at our picks. I guess it's kind of a crapshoot.

    Well, the main point of this thread was not necessarily to create scenarios for the Rockets bringing in a player to fit this role on the team (though that would be fun too), but more to see if it was reasonable to think that the Rockets would be able to get a well-rounded PF like this without giving up one of our core guys (Walt's not a core guy). As of right now, I think it's easier said than done. It's a lot easier to say we should bring in that type of player than to actually come up with a player (I mean we've only found a couple who really fit the bill) who would fill that role, let alone create a scenario where the Rockets could get him. I guess that's why CD paid so well. Well, the Rockets have won championships with Kenny Smith at PG, maybe they'll be able to win one with Kenny Thomas at PF somewhere down the line.

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  5. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

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    Also, why does everyone think Cato should be a PF instead of a C? I used to think it should happen because he's undersized for the C position. After I saw him block Shaq straight up on consecutive possessions, I changed my mind in a hurry. Moreover, it's been said Cato's not quick enough to be a PF. Just curious.

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  6. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    The main reason I'm high on Fortson is he will move this summer, more likely than anyone else we've mentioned. So, it is more about his availability and price tag that I'm assessing, than how he rates to Kurt Thomas or Kenny.

    I don't have a league pass so don't get to see many of the players you mention unless they come here.

    He was 1st team All-American from Cincy and a #10 pick and a proven, ferocious NBA rebounder. He also played plenty of center last year in LaFrentz's absence. I don't think size matters with a guy like this. I hear he is not a tremendous leaper, but athletic enough to improve his NBA scoring...he's already showing stats of an opportunistic junkyard dog at 11 ppg and over 50%.

    I've be so poor in the past at picking PF talent from college (I expected much more from Kurt Thomas), that I'm just gun shy and favor trading a #10 for an NBA player. Trading our #10 this year for one from 3 yrs ago who has an 11.6 rb/gm season under his belt is perfectly fine with me.
     
  7. UT Baller

    UT Baller Member

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    There are a whole lot of players out there who can rebound and play D (Rodman for one). The problem is the scoring part. I would be happy with a player like John Thomas in NY who is a free agent this summer. Another player that fits this profile is Joe Smith who is a high priced back up in Minnesota. I would really like to see us pick up a center so that we can move Cato to the 4. If he is available in the middle of the first round maybe Pryzbilla? We had talks earlier about Ervin Johnson in Milwaukee. If we could get Tim Thomas then he fits the bill almost to a T.

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  8. Bobby

    Bobby Member

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    There just aren't any centers available (with the possible exception of Duncan and getting him is a real long shot) in the draft or as FAs. Consequently, I don't think the Rockets will be looking for a whole lot of offense from the 5. Cato and Rogers will suffice as legitimate centers, rebounders and shot blockers. Neither one can shoot, so please don't think about making either a 4. There are several very good 3 and 4 prospects in the draft and also some free agents. Use Massenberg as trade bait to get someone with at least some ability to stay healthy; get rid of Drew (he's a redundant 2 IMO).

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