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A chronicle of Dwight Howard's downward spiral

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by RV6, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    It's completely pointless to argue over it. Again, if they singled him out it's because he showed great natural lateral movement. They said it themselves. That's how it's supposed to look, based on the human body's musculature/potential/etc. They're not interested in putting out great defenders, they're interested in correcting movement, period. That's the whole foundation of their training center. Correct the movement and the rest sorts itself out.
     
  2. bmd

    bmd Member

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    I'm talking about basketball players. Not just regular joes who don't play sports or exercise.

    Basketball players are taught how to play defense. They are told to not cross their feet when sliding. They are shown how to pivot and drop step and use angles.

    But one very common mistake people make (and a lot of coaches overlook it) is bringing the feet together for the first step. The first step should be stepping out like Teague does.. not bringing the feet in like Dwight.
     
  3. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

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    I still think there's reason for optimism.

    Compare the physiques of Dwight and say Tim Duncan or Dirk Nowitzki. What's the big difference? Yup, the upper body.

    Dwight's knee might be hurting him now, but perhaps it's time for our training staff to tell him to pull a Lebron and scale back a bit on the topside weight. Legs are you need as a big man to maintain post positioning and box out. The shoulders and pecs look great and all, but it's time to take the stress off his knees. This is not a T-Mac situation with a back that will never heal, and a problem with doc-hunting for someone willing to drill many tiny holes into your knee.
     
  4. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    I completely disagree. Going as wide as you can with your first step does not move your hips any faster, and it takes you longer to do your next step, and you're in poor position to change direction. Don't know who your coach was, but it's not good fundamentals. It's about the hips. Teague is wrong. He probably never does the wide step in a game, once he got his ankles broken by the first person who used his wide first step against him with a cross-over.

    Dwight was coached by one of the best defenses coaches in the world. And he's a Center. His lateral movement speed is not as important as keeping his body in a strong stance. He has to be able to take contact first and foremost. And dribble moves by bigs are defended just fine with a hop step. There is much less room down low to dribble around, move your feet and stay strong. That step Dwight did gets your feet back under you as soon as possible so you can anchor in again for your next hit from the opponent

    besides, Dwight looked fast to me in that vid for a big.
     
  5. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Which leg to step with first has nothing to do with the body's natural movement. It doesn't matter which leg you step with first from a physiological standpoint.

    Teague could still have perfect "posture" or whatever you want to call it even if he slid his other leg first.

    I'm not sure why the leg they stepped with first would matter from a physiological standpoint. It would only matter from a basketball fundamentals standpoint.
     
  6. srrm

    srrm Contributing Member

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    First of all great OP! Now:

    2) There is clearly something wrong with the way Dwight sidesteps! The poor guy uses his upper body's sideways momentum to move his legs. He looks completely unstable as he's doing this because his center of mass moves beyond the tipping point of his legs but luckily he's in the air when this happens and doesn't fall over. However, can you imagine the forces he's exerting on his torso and subsequently (perhaps most importantly) his legs to stop the momentum from his bulky upper body when he lands?

    It's the same issue I see when he tries to make his post moves: I feel he moves his upper body first and his legs are not strong enough to handle those quick rotational movements, so he is unstable and off balance in his post moves and is subsequently shooting poorly. For big man defense, perhaps this sidestepping setup is the best way to be effective on the basketball court, but it's definitely not the way a person with balanced muscle gain would move.

    I'm not surprised that Dwight's body is starting to feel the effects, I just hope the training staff has some solutions on hand to work past them quick and smooth enough. The problem seems to never be stated though McHale came close in that quote in the OP: Dwight may be the most driven in the gym but he's not evenly built and is suffering the effects.

    3) A point that was missing from the OP was Dwight's problematic diet until very recently: poor guy was overdosing on sugar and sweets for the significant majority of his playing career.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/24370416


    For someone that is widely regarded as an athletic specimen, it's amazing to see the poor professional guidance Dwight has obviously received in his younger years in building his body up.
     
    #46 srrm, Jan 22, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
  7. bmd

    bmd Member

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    You're just not correct here. The first step is always with the lead leg. Here are some basic videos if you think I'm just bull****ting you:

    Lead leg first:
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2-zE6q2vaWI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


    Skip to 0:12:
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/XkZQFs4ROlY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



    I mean, what do you think you do on a drop step? You lead with the leg in the direction you are going.

    This is basketball 101 and shouldn't even need to be explained.
     
  8. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Here is a good video of an old guy explaining it who knows the fundamentals. He even has a phrase for it. "Step, slide, low and wide". You step first with the lead leg, then slide your back foot. Skip to 0:40

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/EPK65nswetc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  9. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    It matters because you want to drive with your trail/rear leg. So you clear and get the lead leg ahead and push off with the other. That's the most efficient and therefore natural way to advance laterally. If you do it the other way, you hardly move laterally because the leading leg isn't in a great position to push off of to go in that direction. Try it, or better said, force it to and you're likely going to get that leading knee to cave in and blowout your MCL. So whether we're talking sports movement or natural everyday movement, a blown knee is never a good thing. Teague moves correctly, regardless of sport or setting.
     
  10. kingkingston

    kingkingston Member

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    it is called injuries and getting older, can't believe all these Howard threads. It is just rubbish
     
  11. kingkingston

    kingkingston Member

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    how do you know he has a bad attitude ? are you in the inner sanctum of the Rockets ?
     
  12. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    There are no old people waking around without pain?

    Injuries aren't always the result of accidents. There's a difference between someone hurting their knee because they crashed into something and someone who just starts to experience pain without having an accident.
     
  13. varughese.arun

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    Joints may heal in time; unfortunately, you can't fix dumb.
     
  14. jbasket

    jbasket Member

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    Definitely. T-Mac didn't have the "10,000 hours" theory, and I am sure Dwight does. His pain tolerance is frankly ridiculous. Playing through cracked vertebrae myself for 3ish months, man, I wish I could have gone out earlier. It is... brutal. Because of this, I am already having troubles with daily life, and let's just say I am not even 30 yet. Absolutely disheartening stuff.

    Watching the video, I am going to go with bmd. That is clearly just normal defensive slide. Maybe Teague is better than normal? But that is Dwight just not knowing fundamentals.

    However, as a person with repeated back injuries, it has a clear mobility issue with sliding feet, turning the hips, cutting back, etc. I agree with your point: that video doesn't help you out. Also, I will have to admit that now, thinking about it after you made this thread, I do slide like Howard since my separate back injuries. I guess I naturally need to get momentum from the inside leg...

    Thanks for that. Well, I have redshirt + summer to fix the back and form :)
     
  15. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Attitude shows in public, not in inner sanctum.
     
  16. photojoe

    photojoe Member

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    My god.

    While I appreciate how much time and effort must have gone into this post and I do understand the concern, the amount of ridicule, criticism and sometimes even hate that Dwight is getting on this board recently is sickening.

    Say what you want about his offense. I will probably agree. But even if all this crap about his injuries are true, we are still a much, much better defensive and rebounding team when he is playing. Without him, we are way undersized, have no rim protector and have no one to consistently get rebounds. He is still very good to elite in those areas. He is only offseason coming off of a monster playoff series when he was very clearly the second most dominant player in the series- better than Harden, better than Lillard, better than Batum or Parsons- would have been the best player in that series if it wasn't for LMA playing an absolute insane out of his mind stretch.

    It is entirely too early to write him off. It is insane to think that he is washed up and done. In last year's playoffs, Harden sucked, Beverley was injured, Parsons was not the best SF playing, Lin was unsurprisingly inconsistent, D-Mo didn't even play, T Jones was absolutely demolished by LMA and Asik's defense was mediocre at best. Dwight was the only player that stepped his game up and played better in the playoffs than he did in the regular season. If he is able to even do most of that again this year at the same time as Harden playing the same way he has for the large majority of this season then we will be a fearsome team during the playoffs.

    I know it sucks getting blown out. It sucks even worse getting blown out twice in less than a week to the same team. And I know that Dwight has, overall, not lived up to our expectations this season. But freaking come on. I am so sick of reading all the threads saying we should trade him or dump him or whatever.
     
  17. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    The key is the premature lower back movement Dwight has. If he moved as a whole, and still crossed legs, then I'd entertain what BMD is saying. However, it's not natural to try to lead with your lower back like that, that's why I included the reference, I didn't think I'd get opposition if it was backed up by a leading professional in the field.

    Dwight's body is basically isolating and then moving his lower spine first, realizes it's mistake, and comes back to get the rest of the body. That alone sounds pretty bad, even if you're not familiar with the subject. I think I see it differently because it's what I studied, so I've learned not to see it as just a basketball move.
     
  18. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    I made no comments about dumping him or trading him, at least not in this thread. Bad timing maybe, given last night's loss, but I've been trying to illustrate all this in the other threads dumping on him for coasting or not having heart, for days now. I even mentioned it in the OP.

    I agree he's better than most, even at 60%, but ultimately that won't matter if he gets worse and can't even give it a go.
     
  19. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Of course the first step is with the lead leg, just not the way Teague does it. He's going too wide. That's my main point...how far he goes with that first step.

    ppl really do the trail leg first? I don't recall ever doing that in basketball, tennis or baseball as shortstop. Certainly my coaches never said anything i was doing wrong. maybe I was just a natural who needed no correction like you. :p j/k

    imo, Dwight is doing more of a hop than using trail leg first. Which I can justify for a big. and which is also what you'd do if you had pain.
     
  20. RV6

    RV6 Contributing Member

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    FWIW, here's that article on P3.

    http://www.si.com/nba/2014/12/23/marcus-elliott-p3-nba-injury-injury-analysis-data

    I give them so much credibility because of the work they've done, most notably with Korver and Beal (he's the player they're trying to keep anonymous at the beginning of the article).





    I wouldn't say he's necessarily in pain, at that moment anyway. His body just doesn't have the range of motion necessary to execute the movement correctly, so he does whatever the body allows for. Hence, the hop. It's like a movement detour he's taking because the correct route is blocked off...but pain could have led him in that direction in the first place.
     
    #60 RV6, Jan 22, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015

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