Tell me about it. Opinions, but please no lengthy arguments. I want scouting reports, vids, info all right here. It's become tedious to wade through the other threads.
I like Walter footballs and pro football focus overviews. Bottom line, we continue to invest a lot on offense, making dramatic high-risk moves while making solid value moves on defense. It's an interesting contrast. After investing a lot in guys like strong, fiedo and xsf and QB retreads two years ago with limited results, we decided to go all speed last year (fuller, braxton, Lamar Miller, some other guy who didn't play) and make a big QB splash in free agency. That resulted in a historically bad offense. The plan for the offense this year is to invest more in high risk moves! Traded next year's second and first plus this year's first to "settle" our QB situation. After the QB trade, the rest of the draft seemed like a good mix of ready to contribute guys and projects. Walter: NFL Draft Individual Grades: 12. Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson: C- Grade Yuck. This seems like a major panic move, as the Texans really wanted Pat Mahomes, but couldn't get him because of the Chiefs. Deshaun Watson was graded as a third-round prospect by some of the smartest front offices in the NFL. They didn't like his vision or his inability to progress through reads. He then measured in with the worst ball velocity at the combine, and his Wonderlic score was sub par. This is a major reach, and I hate that Houston surrendered its first-round pick in 2018 to get Watson. The 2018 class is going to be great, and now Houston won't have a pick in the first two rounds next April. That said, this isn't an "F" or even a "D" because the Texans had no other choice. They couldn't start Tom Savage. 57. Zach Cunningham, LB, Vanderbilt: A+ Grade I have to believe the Texans think they're living in some parallel universe where every team drafts poorly, because I can't imagine they ever would've thought Zach Cunningham would be available in the second round. There was a chance Cunningham wasn't even going to be available for Houston in the first frame in an ideal world! Cunningham is a very talented linebacker, and he'll be able to replace the declining Brian Cushing. What a steal. 89. D'Onta Foreman, RB, Texans: B+ Grade I have to say that it was a bit awkward to see Brian Cushing make this pick when the Texans selected someone to replace him with their preceding choice. The Texans made another solid decision in the third round, as they wanted a capable backup for Lamar Miller. Foreman is a solid pick, as he easily could've gone 20-25 selections earlier than this. 130. Julie'n Davenport, OT, Bucknell: A Grade I had Julie'n Davenport going to the Texans in the third round several days prior to the NFL Draft, so I definitely like the value they're getting with him in the fourth round. Davenport is an athletic, lengthy tackle, but lacks strength and happens to be a project. Still, he potentially fills a huge need at right tackle. 142. Carlos Watkins, DT, Clemson: A- Grade The Texans wanted to add an interior pass-rushing specialist, and Carlos Watkins did get to the quarterback on occasion in Clemson with 14 career sacks. Watkins is a solid prospect who could've been chosen in the third round without any complaints. He's not consistent, but as a rotational player, that's not as big of an issue. 169. Treston Decoud, S, Oregon State: C Grade Treston Decoud is a big, physical cornerback who will have to move to safety in the pros. That's fine for the Texans, who needed help at the position. However, I didn't have Decoud getting drafted because of his extensive concussion history. He's a huge risk, but could pay off if he stops getting head injuries. 243. Kyle Fuller, C, Baylor: A+ Grade The Texans have an excellent scouting department, as proven by their tendency to hit late-round picks and UDFA signings with high frequency. Kyle Fuller could be another hit, as I had him projected in the fourth round. Fuller's tape is very good, and he has great length for an interior lineman. PFF: AFC South 1 (12) (from Cleveland via Philadelphia) Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson 2 (57) Zach Cunningham, LB, Vanderbilt 3 (89) D’Onta Foreman, RB, Texas 4 (130) Julie’n Davenport, OT, Bucknell 4 (142) (from Cleveland) Carlos Watkins, DI, Clemson 5 (169) Treston Decoud, S, Oregon State 7 (243) Kyle Fuller, C, Baylor Day 1: The Texans made the move to get their quarterback of the future in Watson who had an excellent career at Clemson, finishing with the nation’s No. 2 overall grade at 91.2 in 2016. He does a nice job of understanding defenses before the snap and he can make all of the necessary throws, but the questions arise when it comes to Watson’s ability to work through multiple reads while maneuvering the pocket under pressure. Even though he’s not a perfect prospect, Watson does a great job of bouncing back from mistakes and that should do him well at the next level. Day 2: Cunningham flies to the ball in the run game and his 56 run stops led all Power-5 linebackers in 2016. He has the range to be an impact player in coverage as well, with only his tackling being a major question mark after missing 34 tackles over the last two seasons. Foreman adds talent to the Houston backfield after he broke out in 2016 to rush for 2,016 yards and 15 touchdowns. He moves well for a big back, forcing 64 missed tackles on 323 attempts last season and his work in Texas’ scheme should translate nicely to what Houston likes to do with their run game. Day 3: Watkins progressed nicely at Clemson and he finished 17th among interior defensive linemen with an 84.8 pass-rush grade last season (12 sacks, four QB hits, 23 hurries on 432 rushes). Decoud held his own against good competition in the Pac-12 last year, and his 82.6 coverage grade ranked 43rd in the nation. He used his long frame to break up nine passes, good for 16th in the nation.
I think other teams' selections really affected a lot of the Texans picks this year. 1. The Bears moving up to get Trubisky and the Chiefs move up to get Mahomes. The Texans were not going to get shut out of the top 3 QBs and they had a plan in case this happened. So they pulled the trigger. 2. I think they planned to get a safety in this round. Rick Smith mentioned that this was a good draft for DBs but look at all the safeties that were gone between 2-1 and 2-25: 2-4 Budda Baker, 2-7 Marcus Maye, 2-10 Marcus Williams, 2-18 Justin Evans, 2-24 Obi Melifonwu. Only one more safety was taken between 2-25 and 3-27. The good ones were gone. When there is a run on a position it usually causes good players at other positions to drop. Players like Zach Cunningham. Zach Cunningham was the best ranked player available by far. 3. I've said for a while that it didn't look like the Texans would be looking for their OT in the first two rounds. I think they just about to get one here - Antonio Garcia - but the Patriots traded to 3-21 to get him. They probably had a feeling the Texans were eyeing him. Those that think they should have drafted a OT here anyway, read this. The very next OT drafted after this pick is Julie'n Davenport by the Texans. They could have gotten Davenport here but then they wouldn't have gotten Foreman too. 4. The best available tackle prospect in the 4th round was Davenport. We the fans wanted a RT who could switch to the left when Duane Brown retires or regresses. That is what you have in Davenport. Other players might be more ready but JD was the best prospect. The Carlos Watkins pick was a little surprising. Most of us on the board were hoping for a tight end but the team must be more okay with the TEs on the roster than with the DTs on the roster. Watkins will probably backup Reader or play beside him in certain situations. 5. I had never heard of Treston Decloud before yesterday. I figured they would get a DB at some point in the draft. At this stage in the draft if he contributes, it's a plus. 6. I had less question marks about the guards than others on here but for those that did Kyle Fuller was a top 5 center who can play guard. Probably takes the role Bergstrom had with much less cap space. Grading the picks without perspective of what else was going on I would give the Texans a B- (mostly because of next year's first being traded away). But considering how the draft was going overall and who was available, I'd give them an A-. Things would have gone differently if the Chiefs didn't trade up to get Mahomes and the Patriots didn't trade up to get Garcia.
Mr Clutch and Nino did an excellent job of laying things out.....hard to add anything else to those two postings. 1) Watson Many teams are finding that "Air-Raid" and "Read-Option" QB's are having a hard time transitioning from college to the NFL. I see Watson as a "Read-Option" QB. Knock on Peterman was he lacks a big time arm to be successful in the NFL.....come to find out that Watson had the worst velocity of all the QB's at the combine. So what separates Watson from the rest....A) Leadership. B) running ability. A) Vince Young and Matt Leinart were both good leaders in college....so we were told. B) the NFL is going to try to take away the run and force him to beat them from the pocket. Similar to the way teams game planned for Vick and RG III. This goes back to arm strength and accuracy. Article today why I give the Watson move up a C+. I'm not a fan of reaching for a quarterback in the 1st round. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...s-watson-are-more-likely-to-fail-than-succeed Having said all that....Watson can help if he models his game after Russell Wilson. Manage the game. Don't try to do too much.....let your defense win you the game. Don't throw interceptions. Slide early. Go out of bounds. 2) Cunningham: listed as 234 #'s Went thru every roster to find a ILB under 240 pounds that get any playing time. The only names I recognize off hand are Bills: Kiko Alonzo (238 #'s) & Lawerence Timmons (234 #'s) ...............Ravens: CJ Mosley (234 #'s) ................Eagles: Mychal Kendricks (239 #'s) .................Bears: Danny Trevathan (237 #'s) .............................................................................49ers: just drafted Ruben Foster (229 #'s) So these are guys listed as ILB's or MLB's. Most under 240 pound ILB generally play on special teams. Cunningham was more know for tackling and being active near the line of scrimmage than coverage. If he can stay back from the line of scrimmage and help while playing ILB.....that's great. Playing near the line of scrimmage might be a little tough in the immediate due to all the big bodies. He may feel like he is being bounced around in an elevator...more in the NFL than in college. His long arms are GREAT trait. The biggest weakness the Texans defense has is coverage of the backs or TE from our linebacking crew. I believe Cunningham is meant to help address this weakness. Studs in high school are not always the big man on campus......big man on campus stud may not be "the man" in the NFL. Hopefully he can put on 10 pounds of muscle from now until 2018 and be a tremendous ILB for years to come. 3) Foreman Possible stress fracture kept him from running at the combine. I believe Clowney had a stress fracture that he rushed back from; which contributed to a micro fracture surgery. Reports claim Foreman got as big as 250 pounds during the season. He shed the pounds and got to 233 for the combine. Fast even for 250 pounds; but thoughts of Eddie Lacy come to mind. Great if he can maintain his weight; Which will help keep him healthy, imo. 4) Davenport Can help out immediately at Guard. Small school of Bucknell. Work towards OT of the future. I like his footwork over other guys like Moton. Helps depth now. 5) Carlos Watkins NT with 10.5 sacks. Reader would have been the only NT listed on the roster. He was projected 1st or 2nd round. Texans must not have felt confident or cared for the scraps that appeared headed for undrafted free agency. I question why he dropped so much......could it be family or associates? He has good size and was active with the 10.5 sacks. 6) Decoud Secondary help in training, special teams help. 7) Kyle Fuller Nick Martin needs to prove he can stay healthy. If he goes down....insert Mancz with Fuller as backup.
Maybe the Texans really did LOVE Mahomes - but if they had "no other choice," including starting Tom Savage, at QB, why did the Texans "really" want Mahomes, a QB most unanimously agree won't be able to start for at least a year, if not two? The writer obviously wants to appear insider-y and in-the-know - but then undercut himself with his own failed logic. Funny, actually. I mean, indicative of nothing but the consensus around Watson - good or bad - is that he was the most NFL ready QB in this draft. Getting that guy, rather than sits-for-two-years guy is a "panic" move?
I like the quick release and throwing motion of Watson. Brady/Montana/Peyton Manning have proven strength of arm isn't everything....esp since most teams have turned to short passes as teams seem to rush the QB's faster than in the past. It use to be that your QB needed to get rid of the ball in about 3.8 secs on the average. Now it's probably sooner. Touch and timing tend to be more important to me. I'm against QB's rushing in the NFL unless it's to extend a drive....and I'm talking 2 or 3 yards. If it's open sailing and clear terrain......go for it. But when the defenders close in, get down. Fitzpatrick ran the ball like a dummy and took too many hits. The greatest ability a starting QB should have is "availability ." I want Savage to get rid of the ball in 3 secs or throw it away......if he runs he must be ready to slide fast, since he is pretty slow. It's ok to punt.....just don't throw interceptions. Know the field situation; throw it deep and risk interception in place of a punt if need be.....not a pick 6 ike Schaub would throw or deep passes from your 10 that you players aren't ready to defend like a punt coverage. Russell Wilson (college)...............................................Watson (college) 2009: 8.5 carries per game x 2.5 yds a carry.............2015 (15 games): 13.8 carries/game x 5.3 yds a carry 2010: 11 carries /game x 3 yards a carry....................2016 (15 games): 11 carries/game x 3.8 yds a carry 2011: 5.6 carries/game x 4.3 yards a carry. Russell Wilson (Pro) 2014: 7.4 carries/game x 7.2 yards a carry. 2015: 6.4 carries/game x 5.7 yards a carry. 2016: 4.5 carries/game x 3.6 yards a carry. I'm hoping Watson doesn't try to run 11 times or more a game in the NFL. He may end up hurt or in concussion protocol for weeks at a time. Everyone is bigger, faster, and football smarter (take better angles) in the NFL. Learn to throw another play. He can be ok if he remembers that rule. Keep it about or around 5 carries a game or less. Don't take unnecessary hits. Thanks for the clip.
We drafted football players that play football! You can subscribe to more of my glorious insight for $100 a year. Thanks. =) but i'm really excited for training camp . I want to see if savage will take advantage of the opportunity
I loce how one report says we wanted mahomes while others say we wanted watson. Just face it we will never know who they had rated higger, but i think they msde the correct choice.
Brett Kollman evaluation of Cunningham. Some people are suggesting Houston play a form of a 4-3 defense instead of base 3-4. Perhaps giving Cunningham valuable playing time this year. Sub packages 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 also being hinted with Vrabel calling exotic schemes. I can see that 3-3-5 (or 6) vs the Patriots. One of the five players used as coverage guys being Cunningham on Gronk. Until that doesn't work. I often saw McKinney playing like a 4-3 ILB.....so 3-3-5 works well in my eyes. I actually saw this video before the draft. I often agree with Kollman; but I don't agree with Kollman on Cunningham having sufficient enough leg strength right now. He is close though. I haven't seen the Cunningham thread. Sorry if this is a repeat. http://www.battleredblog.com/2017/4/6/15211394/the-film-room-scouting-vanderbilt-lb-zach-cunningham-houston-texans
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-final-pff-draft-board-top-250-prospects-of-2017/ FINAL PFF DRAFT BOARD: TOP 300 PROSPECTS OF 2017 17. Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson One of the most difficult evaluations in the class, Watson can make the necessary throws to be successful at the next level. His ability to work through progressions and maneuver the pocket, however, present big questions he has to answer. Watson usually saves his best work for crunch time, either down the stretch or late in games, and that’s the part that pushes him back up draft boards despite concerns about his game translating at the next level. — Steve Palazzolo, @PFF_Steve 30. Zach Cunningham, LB, Vanderbilt Cunningham has the combination of athleticism, size, and physicality needed to be an excellent every-down linebacker in the NFL. He excels at taking on blocks, and finished fourth among all FBS inside linebackers in 2016 in run-stop percentage despite missing 13 tackles. He also displays impressive skills in man coverage, as he has the speed and strength to stay on the hip of tight ends even on downfield routes. He should also be selected before the end of Day 1. — Josh Liskiewitz, @PFF_Josh 86. D’Onta Foreman, RB, Texas Foreman is a big back coming off a highly productive season for Texas. Despite his size, he moves well laterally and has a finesse-runner feel to his game. He has the size and strength to move piles and run through defenders, but needs to be more consistent in being the hammer, and not just absorbing contact. His lack of experience in the passing game may limit him to an early-down role, but Foreman has proven that he can be an effective runner. — Matt Claassen, @PFF_Matt 136. Carlos Watkins, Defensive Interior, Clemson Clemson produced three prospects capable of contributing on NFL rosters in 2015. The fourth member of that starting front will follow suit this season. Watkins is more solid than spectacular, especially for a three-technique, but his versatile skill-set will appeal to the majority of pro teams. He’s a player built on length and strength, working through blocks, rather than around them, to make plays. While Watkins rarely embarrassed offensive lineman as a pass-rusher, he restricted the pocket frequently enough to represent a threat to opposing quarterbacks. Containing some of the athletes at the position in the NFL can be simplified significantly by Watkins’ deployment. He may have been overshadowed at times by Clemson’s freakish athletes, but Watkins is a fine player in his own right. — John Breitenbach, @PFF_John 259. Kyle Fuller, C, Baylor Kyle Fuller graded positively as a pass blocker in a pass-heavy scheme at Baylor for three-straight seasons. In 2016, he allowed one sack, two QB hits, and four hurries on 536 pass-blocking snaps. — Jordan Plocher, @PFF_Jordan
BR: Houston Texans Houston’s grade is dependent on the opinion of the acquisition of quarterback Deshaun Watson. Those who thought Houston gave up too much for him knocked the grade. Those who liked it gave high marks. SB Nation grade: C+ CBS Sports: C+ USA Today: B- Sports Illustrated: A Washington Post: A http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-dr...-draft-grades-winners-losers-results-analysis Houston Texans 1 (12). Clemson QB Deshaun Watson 2 (57). Vanderbilt LB Zach Cunningham 3 (89). Texas RB D’Onta Foreman 4 (130). Bucknell OT Julie’n Davenport 4 (142). Clemson DT Carlos Watkins 5 (169). Oregon State DB Treston Decoud 7 (243). Baylor C/G Kyle Fuller Overview: In one of the boldest moves of round one, the Texans sent their 2018 first-round pick to Cleveland in exchange for a 13-spot climb that netted Houston its quarterback of the future and likely present. Cunningham generated pre-draft first-round buzz after a prolific college career and has all the requisite athletic measurables to become a three-down NFL starter, likely replacing John Simon as a year-one role player and Brian Cushing eventually. I get the Foreman pick, but he’s not “my type” of back as a finesse runner in a power back’s body who doesn’t catch passes. Davenport is a massive small-school project at a position of immediate need. Watkins dominated Vikings third-round G/C Pat Elflein when they met last year, and Decoud did similarly to Jets fifth-round WR Chad Hansen. Seventh-round flier Fuller is a big-bodied, bad athlete who committed way too many penalties in the Big 12. From top to bottom, I think this was an okay draft whose results will hinge almost entirely on Watson. And I’m optimistic about Watson under Bill O’Brien’s tutelage with quality skill-position talent around him. Grade: B- http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/71777/174/draft-2017-afc-draft-grades
Here's a good take on the QB that @Yaosthirdleg posted before. I believe overall, this was a solid draft with loads of potential that will need to be refined into well oiled machines. All of our picks have the ability to contribute one way or another (whether offense, defense, or special teams).
Agree with everyone he graded here except for Watson. Watson was the best QB in college football two years running and knows how to win. I would like to know how he knows Texans had targeted Mahomes instead of Watson. You would like to see a decent Wonderlic score, but Kaepernick has a 38 and Blaine Gabbert a 39, so I don't put too much store in them. I had the pick graded at B. People tend to forget there are other ways to get a first round pick in 2018 - like offering the next year's #1.
Anytime someone says "Well, we had to do it" I get a bad feeling about what they claim they had to do
Exactly. "We had to sign Brock. Then we had to trade a pick to get rid of him. Then we had to trade another pick to get Watson." It's like they're in a hole and they just keep digging.
Just because they failed once doesn't mean they should totally give up trying. As long as it doesn't compromise the rest of the team, I'm a proponent of "keep trying till you get YOUR quarterback"
