Later than normal, mainly because I was too disgusted with the team to really come up with any thoughts before now. For those that don't know, this is an annual tradition on this site in which the locals are allowed to mock me for my horrible taste in sports teams while asking questions like "what the hell is with the tattoo on Kenyon's/Birdman's neck?" Once the season starts, I'll do the annual Nugs season thread that I always do (here is last years for example). OK, at this point you've seen our off-season. We added Al Harrington. We got rid of the ghost of Linas Kleiza. Melo started flirting with the Knicks. We got a year older. KMart got hurt. Odds are Coby Karl and Brian Butch are going to be cut in the next few days before their contracts get guaranteed (small chance Butch isn’t, only because he got hurt in summer league ball). We also signed Shelden Williams to a minimum contract. Reasons For Optimism: * We have Melo. No matter what you think about him (and there are legit arguments going on in the Is Melo Elite? thread for both sides), you have to admit that he can light up a scoreboard like very few players in the league. He’s only 26 years old. When he wants to play D, he’s a surprisingly good defender (look at the WCF against the Lakers). Unfortunately, he never wants to. I’ve also always maintained that he’s a surprisingly underrated passer. * We have Karl back. Watching Adrian Dantley coach last year was like watching a dog try to do calculus. Mind-numbingly painful. George has his faults (like playing AC), but you have to admit that AT WORST, he’s a top 10 coach in the league. Dantley was probably the worst in the league other than Kurt Rambis and possibly Vinnie Del Negro. So that will help. * Lawson & Afflalo. I’m HUGE fans of those two. HUGE. I know the hype is over Collison as the “late first round PG steal of the draft”, but I really believe Lawson’s the more complete – and better – player. Him learning from Chauncey is going to just make him that much better. I really think in three years he’ll be contending for an all-star spot (I doubt he gets it just because there are so many great PG’s in the west, but he’ll deserve to be in the discussion). As for Afflalo, he’s never going to be a scorer, but he’s a valuable player who can hit open shots when he needs to. I hate using this comparison, but I see him as a Battier-type player. Nowhere NEAR Battier’s defensive level (I know there’s debate about him on this board, but I love Shane), but the same type of player. He’s young, he’s cheap, and I’m glad he’s ours. Reasons To Be Negative: * We have Melo… right now. I’ve been saying on this board for a while now that I don’t see Melo playing another game for the Nugs. Once again, I have zero inside knowledge on this issue. It’s just my gut instinct. He’s not happy here. He sees his buddies uniting in Miami and he wants to do that. Combine that with the fact that we have a VERY pro-active front office (yes, we got rid of Wark and Chapman, but Bearup has always been the man running things), and I see this ending sooner rather than later – either with Melo signing an extension or by being traded. * We have Karl back. And George is kind of crazy. He plays AC more than he should. He plays Malik Allen over Renaldo Balkman. He hates JR (although that one is justifiable). With George there’s as good of a chance that he’ll win Coach of the Year as there is that a player will pull a Sprewell on him. * Chemistry. It’s always risky with this team. Melo can be moody. JR and KMart are bat**** insane. Nene can sulk. Balkman’s high the entire season. Karl isn’t exactly delicate. It could all blow up at any second. * Injuries. KMart is out for a couple of months. Possibly the season. Nene is injury prone. Chauncey’s getting up there in years. Our frontcourt has ZERO depth, so with KMart out, we could be in a lot of trouble and playing quite a bit of smallball. That’s basically a big picture view right now for those who are curious. Feel free for questions here and like I mentioned, when the season starts I’ll do the annual Nugs thread for that.
Is the general feeling among Nuggets fans that the team has performed to expectations or underachieved? I'm sure the answer to this would be different if asked last offseason after the WCFs run, but I've always felt that you guys generally had the talent to win ~60 games and consistently go deep into the playoffs. The reason I ask is that I think for you guys to seriously contend for a championship year-in and year-out, it's going to come down to Carmelo. Do you guys feel that Melo's going to make the jump from top-10 player to top 2-3? Like you said, he's only 26 and he's got a lot of talent. But if he doesn't reach that level, it almost seems like it might be better to blow it up and start over, as opposed to trying to lock him down with a long-term deal.
Would the Nuggets do this trade? Denver Receives: Shane Battier Kevin Martin Jordan Hill Jermaine Taylor NY Picks Houston Receives: Carmelo Anthony Aaron Afflalo With Melo most likely bailing when his contract expires, Denver mine as well get something nice in return right now. They get top 5 SG in Martin, defensive specialist and veteran in Battier (also an expiring), nice young pieces in Jordan Hill and Jermaine Taylor, and nice picks for the future. Lineups would look like.... Denver: Billups/ Lawson Kevin Martin/ Smith Battier/ Harrington Kenyon Martin/ Balkman Nene/ Andersen Houston: Brooks/ Lowry Lee/ Afflalo Anthony/ Budinger Scola/ Hayes or Patterson Yao/ Miller Both teams imo get better.
It's very hard for me to discuss the Nuggets because the status of Melo is so questionable. When Melo re-signs or the Nuggets trade him, I'll jump right in (unless someone posts something crazy or brilliant).
Don't forget the Cherry on top. You have COBY! <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H7004f2ABFc?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H7004f2ABFc?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
Any team with Carmelo Anthony has a bright future, but I think Karl is going to be a distraction. I've always liked his style, but his illness is going to hang over the team like a cloud of ill omen. I wish him the best, though. Anyone fighting cancer is a hero in my book.
Brian Butch very well could be the most akward stiff i have ever seen you would be good to let him go it will be interesting to see how harrington will fit in there usually the denver big man are pretty rugged guys like nene, martin, andersen and harrington can defend multiple positions the only issue is that he doesnt really defend any of them that well. Lawson seeing more court time can only be a good thing, chauncey is getting older now should keep his legs as fresh as possible for the post season. lawson is going to have a tough time though if smith and harrington are off the bench with him they are gonna put up shot after shot. really happy for afflalo though he really developed into a solid nba player i was surprised really i didnt think he would be more than a 7-8th man off the bench but he worked on his shot a lot (he had a ugly ugly hitch in college) to warrant the added PT. One thing I never understood is how balkman doesnt play more he was always a high energy guy in NY that always seemed to be on the positive end of runs/plays. i know that Melo plays the majority of the minutes but wish he got some more unless there is something about him that i just dont know about. Also congrats on losing Kleiza the Rockets finally got rid of Brian Cook its about time you had something to smile about too.
I used to always think we underachieved, but looking back at the roster other than last year it seems like we finished right about where we should. I honestly can't complain. I honestly don't think Melo will ever be top 2-3. I think he could be 5, but he'll never be better than LeBron or Wade. I think Durant has passed him and will stay in front of him too. I don't know. I'm the wrong person to ask when it comes to Rosterbation. Sorry. Honestly, they picked him up for trade flexibility. Same with Coby. Tehy were good guys to have in practice during the playoffs and they were non-guaranteed. That's how we got JR. That's how we got Balkman. It's one of the ways our front office was able to acquire assets. When we couldn't deal them, their days were numbered. I am dreading the time in which Melo and Harrington are playing together and trying to play D. It's going to be ugly. Agreed 100%. I really think Lawson will see more minutes this year. I doubt we see AC unless it's an emergency or blowout. As for him not getting his shots, that's fine. He's not as much of a scorer as some of the other young PG's. He'll get his when they're available, but he won't force it. Exceeded all of my expectations. I thought he'd be a slight downgrade from Dahntay Jones (who became wildly overrated due to the series against the Hornets), but with the potential to be better eventually. He was better from day 1. Another great steal by our front office (and it was on Chauncey's recommendation). Balk is a HORRIBLE practice guy. I joke about it a lot, but dude is high at least 90% of the time. There's no way he's ever passed a drug test in his life. But he still can play. That said, because of the practice issues, I can at least see why Karl won't play him. I did a happy dance unlike one that has ever been seen when he was officially gone. Have fun Toronto. Interesting insight. Do you have a publication I could subscribe to? I would like to see more of your thoughts on this issue.
Two questions: 1.) Do you guys really think the Nugs want Melo to stay in the Western Conference? 2.) Do you think that your assets are better than what NY (Gallo, Chandler) and NJ (Harris, Lopez, Favors) have to offer?
1. Why not? Pau Gasol was traded in the same conference and so was Steve Nash a while back. 2. Yes we can offer the Nuggets a better package, because unlike the Knicks or Nets, we have draft picks and a large trade exception plus expirings and young cheap talent.
Also, if they are gonna trade Melo, they aren't gonna compete for anything for a while so the whole "don't trade to a team in the same conference because of competition" doesn't apply to the Nuggets because they will be in full rebuilding mode. Also given the fact that we are the only team mentioned to absorb large salaries, including taking back of the Nuggets' bad contracts such as Billups or Anderson. NY or New Jersey doesn't have enough to make the salaries match. We are the only team that can offer tangible assets as well as immediate salary cap relief without completely gutting our roster to do so.
I posted this in the other thread in the GARM lets say you were to trade with Houston what would you think is fair value back for Melo with who we have on the team. If NJ offers up Lopez, Favors or Harris I don't think our offer would be better, but I would say that the team he would be going to in NJ (assuming he signs the extension) would still be further away from winning than the current Nuggets team if he stays on it. At least from the outside looking in he is partially demanding this trade because he feels the Nuggets team isnt good enough and doesnt have the flexibility to bring in another young star to play with him without giving up too much. I think our offer would be better than NY though
My question for you, Nuggets4, is what is the nugget fan perception of what Houston could offer? What are their opinions on Brooks and Martin specifically, as well as Bud and Hill? If you can give info on that it'd be appreciated. Moe
What's gonna be left on their roster after they get rid of Harris, Lopez and Favors? They can't even offer salary relief. The point of them rebuilding is taking back as little salary as possible with draft picks and a trade exception as well, none of which NY or NJ have.
1.) Doubt it, though my guess is you guys go through a bit of a rebuild if you lose Melo. If that's the case, why would you care? 2.) Than NY, yes. They each put up about 15 ppg in a Mike D'Antoni offense -- Raja Bell did that too. Galinari has the upside to maybe become a borderline all star, but at the end of the day, he's a flower forward, and should probably remind you of Tskitishvili. The Rockets can throw cheap young players who are solid 30 mpg types with some upside (Budinger, Lee), lottery talent big men (Hill, Patterson), and a 20 ppg type of guard (Martin or Brooks). Mix in picks that actually have potential to be worth something (NY's in 2011 and 2012) and I would think we can trump the Knicks best offer. If NJ puts up Favors, and Harris, Lopez, or Terence Williams, that would be a really nice haul, I'd think. I'd wonder though, if Melo would want to play/resign on that team? To be honest, if I were the Nuggets and knew Melo wasn't going to come back, I would take Favors alone, deal Billups for picks/young talent, and suck up a pretty bad season. Then hope to rebuild around Favors and another high lotto pick in 2011.
it wouldnt be all 3 but 1 or maybe 2 of the three not sure if the nets are still under the cap or not they still could be slightly under
