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The Legend of Korra

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Marteen, Apr 21, 2012.

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  1. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    Spacemoth,

    If Aang cheated on Katara she would bloodbend his dick off. Then again, we don't know how he died. Maybe that was it.
     
  2. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    Korrasami is canon.

    by Bryan Konietzko, co-creator of The Legend of Korra & Avatar: The Last Airbender, photographer, musician/recording artist Ginormous

    DECEMBER 22, 2014
    Korrasami is canon.

    You can celebrate it, embrace it, accept it, get over it, or whatever you feel the need to do, but there is no denying it. That is the official story. We received some wonderful press in the wake of the series finale at the end of last week, and just about every piece I read got it right: Korra and Asami fell in love. Were they friends? Yes, and they still are, but they also grew to have romantic feelings for each other.

    Was Korrasami “endgame,” meaning, did we plan it from the start of the series? No, but nothing other than Korra’s spiritual arc was. Asami was a duplicitous spy when Mike and I first conceived her character. Then we liked her too much so we reworked the story to keep her in the dark regarding her father’s villainous activities. Varrick and Zhu Li weren’t originally planned to end up as a couple either, but that’s where we took the story/where the story took us. That’s how writing works the vast majority of the time. You give these characters life and then they tell you what they want to do.

    I have bragging rights as the first Korrasami shipper (I win!). As we wrote Book 1, before the audience had ever laid eyes on Korra and Asami, it was an idea I would kick around the writers’ room. At first we didn’t give it much weight, not because we think same-sex relationships are a joke, but because we never assumed it was something we would ever get away with depicting on an animated show for a kids network in this day and age, or at least in 2010.

    Makorra was only “endgame” as far as the end of Book 1. Once we got into Book 2 we knew we were going to have them break up, and we never planned on getting them back together. Sorry, friends. I like Mako too, and I am sure he will be just fine in the romance department. He grew up and learned about himself through his relationships with Asami and Korra, and he’s a better person for it, and he’ll be a better partner for whomever he ends up with.

    Once Mako and Korra were through, we focused on developing Korra and Asami’s relationship. Originally, it was primarily intended to be a strong friendship. Frankly, we wanted to set most of the romance business aside for the last two seasons. Personally, at that point I didn’t want Korra to have to end up with someone at the end of series. We obviously did it in Avatar, but even that felt a bit forced to me. I’m usually rolling my eyes when that happens in virtually every action film, “Here we go again…” It was probably around that time that I came across this quote from Hayao Miyazaki:

    “I’ve become skeptical of the unwritten rule that just because a boy and girl appear in the same feature, a romance must ensue. Rather, I want to portray a slightly different relationship, one where the two mutually inspire each other to live - if I’m able to, then perhaps I’ll be closer to portraying a true expression of love.”

    I agree with him wholeheartedly, especially since the majority of the examples in media portray a female character that is little more than a trophy to be won by the male lead for his derring-do. So Mako and Korra break the typical pattern and end up respecting, admiring, and inspiring each other. That is a resolution I am proud of.

    However, I think there needs to be a counterpart to Miyazaki’s sentiment: Just because two characters of the same sex appear in the same story, it should not preclude the possibility of a romance between them. No, not everyone is queer, but the other side of that coin is that not everyone is straight. The more Korra and Asami’s relationship progressed, the more the idea of a romance between them organically blossomed for us. However, we still operated under this notion, another “unwritten rule,” that we would not be allowed to depict that in our show. So we alluded to it throughout the second half of the series, working in the idea that their trajectory could be heading towards a romance.

    But as we got close to finishing the finale, the thought struck me: How do I know we can’t openly depict that? No one ever explicitly said so. It was just another assumption based on a paradigm that marginalizes non-heterosexual people. If we want to see that paradigm evolve, we need to take a stand against it. And I didn’t want to look back in 20 years and think, “Man, we could have fought harder for that.” Mike and I talked it over and decided it was important to be unambiguous about the intended relationship.

    We approached the network and while they were supportive there was a limit to how far we could go with it, as just about every article I read accurately deduced. It was originally written in the script over a year ago that Korra and Asami held hands as they walked into the spirit portal. We went back and forth on it in the storyboards, but later in the retake process I staged a revision where they turned towards each other, clasping both hands in a reverential manner, in a direct reference to Varrick and Zhu Li’s nuptial pose from a few minutes prior. We asked Jeremy Zuckerman to make the music tender and romantic, and he fulfilled the assignment with a sublime score. I think the entire last two-minute sequence with Korra and Asami turned out beautiful, and again, it is a resolution of which I am very proud. I love how their relationship arc took its time, through kindness and caring. If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens.

    Was it a slam-dunk victory for queer representation? I think it falls short of that, but hopefully it is a somewhat significant inching forward. It has been encouraging how well the media and the bulk of the fans have embraced it. Sadly and unsurprisingly, there are also plenty of people who have lashed out with homophobic vitriol and nonsense. It has been my experience that by and large this kind of mindset is a result of a lack of exposure to people whose lives and struggles are different from one’s own, and due to a deficiency in empathy––the latter being a key theme in Book 4. (Despite what you might have heard, bisexual people are real!) I have held plenty of stupid notions throughout my life that were planted there in any number of ways, or even grown out of my own ignorance and flawed personality. Yet through getting to know people from all walks of life, listening to the stories of their experiences, and employing some empathy to try to imagine what it might be like to walk in their shoes, I have been able to shed many hurtful mindsets. I still have a long way to go, and I still have a lot to learn. It is a humbling process and hard work, but nothing on the scale of what anyone who has been marginalized has experienced. It is a worthwhile, lifelong endeavor to try to understand where people are coming from.

    There is the inevitable reaction, “Mike and Bryan just caved in to the fans.” Well, which fans? There were plenty of Makorra shippers out there, so if we had gone back on our decision and gotten those characters back together, would that have meant we caved in to those fans instead? Either direction we went, there would inevitably be a faction that was elated and another that was devastated. Trust me, I remember Kataang vs. Zutara. But one of those directions is going to be the one that feels right to us, and Mike and I have always made both Avatar and Korra for us, first and foremost. We are lucky that so many other people around the world connect with these series as well. Tahno playing trombone––now that was us caving in to the fans!

    But this particular decision wasn’t only done for us. We did it for all our queer friends, family, and colleagues. It is long overdue that our media (including children’s media) stops treating non-heterosexual people as nonexistent, or as something merely to be mocked. I’m only sorry it took us so long to have this kind of representation in one of our stories.

    I’ll wrap this up with some incredible words that Mike and I received in a message from a former Korra crew member. He is a deeply religious person who devotes much of his time and energy not only to his faith, but also to helping young people. He and I may have starkly different belief systems, but it is heartwarming and encouraging that on this issue we are aligned in a positive, progressive direction:

    “I’ve read enough reviews to get a sense of how it affected people. One very well-written article in Vanity Fair called it subversive (in a good way, of course)… I would say a better word might be “healing.” I think your finale was healing for a lot of people who feel outside or on the fringes, or that their love and their journey is somehow less real or valuable than someone else’s… That it’s somehow less valid. I know quite a few people in that position, who have a lifetime of that on their shoulders, and in one episode of television you both relieved and validated them. That’s healing in my book.”

    Love,

    Bryan

    http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/105916338157/korrasami-is-canon-you-can-celebrate-it-embrace
     
  3. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    Thanks for the article, Haymitch. My biggest takeaway from the article is Nickelodeon actually allowing them to go forward with the relationship! I kind of expected the creators to be coy with their bosses and say it was up for interpretation. The fact that they were up front with their intentions was surprising. Say what you want about Nick treating the show poorly or mishandling the production side of Korra, but they should receive a huge amount of kudos.

    The huge amount of press from the finale might give way for another golden generation of cartoon programming. Hopefully another Gargoyles, Superman animated series or Batman Animated Series type of series is made because of Korra's achievements
     
  4. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

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    I'm sorry but the reveal only serves to unearth the naïveté of the writers.

    It shows the perspective they're coming from and makes them look like the inexperienced nerds that they are. Just as Varrick and Julie had absolutely nothing going for them to suggest that they would be a good couple, so too was it stupid to have Korra and Asami both fall in and out love with the same man before finally settling on each other. It's absurd storytelling, and if they did it for "subversive" reasons well then that's even more absurd.
     
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  5. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    Different types of love triangles are fairly common in storytelling. I mean if you don't like it that's fine but they've been leading to that point for a while so I don't find it at all absurd.
     
  6. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    Bryke's afterword about Korrasami being canon might be "free" of Nick's control, though. I don't think Nick can control what they say after the show has aired (and especially not after the series finale). In other words, Nick might not be okay with that relationship, but they can't say anything about it, now that the show is over. Maybe Nick was okay with the final scene being "open to interpretation," but then Bryke clarified it.

    Anyway, I don't know the situation, but that's my take.

    Disagreed about Varrick and Zhu Li - though there wasn't a lot of backstory about their lives before they met each other, one can infer that they spent every minute of their day together. You spend that much time with someone, and you're bound to develop some sort of attachment.

    However...

    ...I do think that Korra and Asami were a bit of a stretch, though. Throughout the series, nothing suggested that they'd have a romantic interest in the other party.

    Best friends, gossiping about Mako and how crappy he is as an ex-boyfriend? Ok!

    Best friends, with Asami checking on Korra every few days or so through letters, after Book 3's ending? Definitely.

    But Korra / Asami having romantic feelings about the other party? That's a bit unbelievable.
     
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  7. dback816

    dback816 Member

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    Really?

    I don't suppose you're one of those people who think Hollywood romcoms are the golden standards of relationships are you?
     
  8. hooroo

    hooroo Member

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    I think they were using Korra's mental block/self doubt as an allusion to her discovering/acceptance of her own sexuality.

    This series was pretty much an assemblage of cliched charcter/relationship/story archetypes from any TV bible but I can easily overlook these when watching a cartoon.

    That ending though, what a disappointment. It was so hackneyed it kind of spoilt the series for me. I could immediately recognise it. It's hard to explain but if you've seen enough coming of age gay/lesbian films and tv shows featuring "coming out" storylines you'll know it too.

    It kind of left a similiar distaste from when I saw Jeanne and the Pefect Guy. A 90s movie which can be described as a French gay musical starring Virgine Ledoyen. However it comes off as pink propaganda intent on promoting how safe it is to have sex with a HIV person. It's so heavy-handed it managed to make Virginie Ledoyen seem less appealing which is a nearly impossible task.

    Gay marriage has been a fad cause in Hollywood for quite sometime. I'm not for or against it. I just can't help but think this is where the idea originated from. I definately don't like fad causes as it trivializes other people's ordinary lives. Intent is important to me. I applaud honest storytelling.

    What also irks me is that I really liked the look and myth of this series and could see its potential but that ending... If it were a live action movie, it's be one of those formulaic bad psychedelic 60s/70s sex romp films where the protagonist screws his/her way through the entire way and the second plot point is when she screws the old guy/villain that she reaches an epiphany or some kind elightenment.
     
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  9. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    Wow. I'm surprised some of y'all were caught off guard. My wife and I noticed they've been hinting at it for at least the last two seasons. And it made sense too. Sure, they both had fairly childish crushes on Mako early on, but since then they both went through a lot and grew a lot - and often did so together. It just made sense for them to get together in the end.

    Y'all should rewatch seasons 3 and 4. Their growing relationship really sticks out. For me, the only question was if the writers would leave it ambiguous or not.
     
  10. sealclubber1016

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    They did drop numerous hints, but because it was on Nick people just assumed there was no way in hell they would actually go there.

    I myself thought they were just being friendly for that reason, but in hindsight it most certainly wasn't out of nowhere.
     
  11. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Haven't started binge watching this yet . . . it is in the netflix role somewhere

    Rocket River
     
  12. AstroRocket

    AstroRocket Member

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    Thank-you! Season three was filled with telling moments that made the direction of their relationship obvious. I think people watch animated shows and are dismissive of small character moments and interactions the same way they would be if it was live action, forgetting the hours that went into storyboarding, penciling, inking, shading, animating, and editing them. NOTHING is unintended in animation.
     
  13. DreamShook

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    I was always aware of Asami's thirstiness.

     
  14. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    I think this is a bit of a stretch, too. There's no connection between getting whipped by Zaheer / poisoned by Hg to falling in love with Asami. And Toph certainly wouldn't have been the catalyst that Korra needed to realize that she loved Asami all along.

    Your post seemed like you just wanted to reference that movie for some reason. But hey, more power to you.

    I'll definitely rewatch both seasons - don't normally buy movies / TV shows, but LoK has been an exception since Book 1. But I remember thinking, throughout watching Book 3 when it was airing, that Asami was pretty useless, in that she didn't see any "screen time." Which made sense, because her character really had nothing to contribute to S3 and most of S4 (not a bender, no need for her tech expertise, etc.)

    Aside from the exchange of letters from when Korra was recuperating and the time spent in the desert, can't really remember thinking "oh, Korra and Asami could actually be a thing!"

    Though I will say that Korra disregarding Mako and Bolin's letters while only replying to Asami could have been a hint. But again, you can chalk that up to besties being besties.
     
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  15. cloudng8

    cloudng8 Contributing Member

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    Finally finished the series... hands down book 3 was the best and on par with tlab. Book 4 seemed really rush but enjoyed it. Overall I really enjoyed it as a whole and really sad we won't see anymore new avatars.
     
  16. pgsxdjp

    pgsxdjp Member

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    Zaheer was awesome. FWIW, at San Diego Comic Con they announced a Legend of Korra comic book written by co-creator DiMartino.
     
  17. Dei

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    Screw this series. It's obvious the creators were baiting a sequel with the lesbian pairing.

    It wasn't that good anyway.
     
  18. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    It's just comics, isn't it? I'm sure they'd have done that no matter what. They're still making ATLA comics.
     
  19. Duncan McDonuts

    Duncan McDonuts Contributing Member

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    I finally watched A:tLA and TLoK for the first time. Took about a month to finish the series with me blowing through TLoK in about 10 days.

    Awesome world they created and great series in both. I loved Avatar way more than Korra. Avatar had better humor, more character development, and was way more epic. Book 2: Earth was amazing. The journey in Avatar was perfect and smooth. Toph Beifong is the best character ever.

    Korra, while good, felt way too disjointed from book to book. Book 1: Air made chi blockers and Equalists more powerful than benders, yet they disappeared in later books with their technology other than Asami putting the glove on once per season (Asami should've learned more chi blocker techniques to make her more relevant for Team Avatar). Book 2: Spirits was bad, but at least it explored the mythology of spirits. Book 3: Change was as good as Book 3: Fire from Avatar, Zaheer and the Red Lotus were badasses, but like chi blockers in Book 2, spirit integration was mostly ignored.

    Book 4: Balance was the only season that felt like a smooth transition from its preceding book. I liked how they focused on Korra's PTSD, but I thought too much time was spent on it and Korra getting owned by amateurs and not enough on other characters, who I found more interesting than Korra. While the series was about Korra, I got tired of her bullish, stubborn attitude and delusions of grandeur since she's the Avatar. Also, for a water tribe Avatar, her water bending left much to be desired and I noticed she mainly used the other elements and never carried water like Katara did.

    I still loved TLoK, but A:tLA felt like a flawless series whereas TLoK had imperfections.
     

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