Hakeem didn't really develop his turn around until his jr yr. Offensively , he was a rebounder and dunk king. One thing I always say about a young player is the work ethic. All these guy come in with a certain degree of atheleticism, but a guy who is a hard worker, his upside and potential comes up quicker. The same workout Badiane had, no one ever said Griffin or Taylor had a work out like that. Taylor nor Griffin was known in college or high school as hard worker. Karl Malone, even as a raw offensive player was known as a bull regarding work ethic. Hakeem,Jordan,Barkley and all the great players are known as hard workers. Everyone in the nba has some potential, but guys like Coleman, Camby and so on, just don't sell out to become the best they can be. Thats what seperates the super stars form the avg stars.
Olajuwon at 19? Maybe, but also a lot like Olumeide Oyejeiidi at 19, or Soumalia Soumake, or Yinka Dare, or one of any number of African players to not make it.
Hakeem's age has been questioned as well......... but my point was that every team is now trying to find the "next _______" very few players are playing 3 and 4 years of college anymore which is pushing teams into predicting the future......... look at Tmo if he had come out early he would have been a lottery pick........... if it was an exact science it would be boring, gotta take your lumps if you wanna find that diamond............ Robert Horry Sam Cassell Cuttino Mobley to name a few, and don't forget our amazing run of CBA players that we paired with Hakeem to win a couple of Championships
HP, Hakeem would not have gone in the first round after his freshman year...the guy played some but was as raw as could be..... No one is saying that Badiane will be Hakeem, just that he has the same athleticism...a QUICK big man is hard to find, and if he has a great work ethic, he has a chance to be good. If he is as advertised, why can't he be an all star? He could....the odds are he won't but if he is that good of an athlete, it is all up to him. DD
In last night's draft he would've. Top 5 probably. Look who Toronto took, for crying out loud. The guy blocked 2 shots a game in college, is rail thin, and he's the #4 pick. Freaking Griffin blocked twice that. Look who the Clippers took.
DaDakota, You know, I saw Hakeem live many times his freshman year. I have an eye-witnesss opinion, too. If you don't think Hakeem would have been selected as high as Hilario/Wilcox, fine. I think you are just saying that to say that all raw athletic big men are the same, and work ethic is the only difference. That's simply not true. Not all leaping big men are equal athletes. The NBA draft does not treat them the same at all. bunches and bunches of "raw athletic big men" get taken in every draft. from my experience, they either go very high (lottery), or very low (2nd round). There's a difference, and I think that difference is that "raw athletic big man" has two meanings. One means he's a "raw <b>basketball</b> player" like Hakeem/Kwama/Hilario/Wilcox, while the other means he's a "raw athlete" who is uncoordinated with controlling his body even without the ball. Look at it this way, a lot of tall players cannot control their body at age 15, but can jump. You agree with that? Some never become smooth athletes like Hakeem was at age 19, who can hawk the ball, great reflexes, good balance, can change direction on a dime on his feet. Both types can look clumsy dribbling and shooting, but one is well coordinated with their body, the other is visually more clumsy with their balance, reflexes, change of direction, etc. Sometimes "raw athlete" is about a great athlete who only needs to learn the game (dribble/score)--you can run them through drills to test that--and those guys go high in the draft. Sometimes "raw athlete" means they are a dorky, clumsy guy who happens to be able to run and jump--those guys go in the second round. big difference.
Ya well Yao and Shawn Bradley were compared just because of height and we all knowed how that turned out
Horry was a lotto pick so I don't think you can really call him a diamond in the rough. Besides, with career avergaes of 8 and 5, some could say he underachieved for an 11th pick.
I think I remember houston fans hating the pick of Horry and wanting the Rocks to pick Rider !!!!!!! did Rider win championships in Houston and LA ? but again, what do the Rockets brass know right ? I mean it is not like they do this stuff for a living
I would say that Akeem after the first year would drop pretty far with the talent pool that is around right now. Probably not to #44 but late 20's - early 30's. This guy could be a stiff but I would have been more cautious if they were talking about an American who has played basketball for a while, like those examples that HP brought up. The fact is the boy has not played for that long and his rate of growth in the past 16 months suggests he has certainly not bottomed-out yet. Added the fact that he is a foreigner and he is not a lumbering big man with a history of foot problems ala Diop, I am willing to be positive about what this guy can be in 2 yrs.
Guys, It's just simple statistics: the probability of a 44th pick becoming an All-Star is pretty slim. Badiane "slipped" to #44 for a reason. Every kid has potential but it's not always realistic. At least we can discuss something over the Summer...
I think we are all missing one point. Akeem was raised up playing soccer........er Futbul. He had great coordination and moved well without the ball in his hands. Just moving with or without the ball was natural to Hakeem.
Absolutely! I KNEW that 1 minute after this kid got picked we'd be flooded with "He could be the next Dream" posts. The only similarity to Hakeem is that they both hail from Africa. This kid is closer to Shawn Bradley in basketball skill than Hakeem. Physically, he's LIGHTYEARS ahead of Shawn but his basbetball skills are extremely limited. Whether he'll develop into a good player like say Dirk Nowitzki only time will tell. He may actually be quite good someday but he's no Hakeem. That said, he does exhibit a intense desire to work hard on his game (Are you listening Eddie Griffin?) and that is a good thing.
Once again we are in agreement. The good thing about this kid is that he is a demonstrably hard worker unlike Eddie "Pass the Doobie" Griffin. As a result, his upside looks much greater.
I also saw Hakeem play his freshman year, and he was VERY raw....he improved the most over the summer of his freshman and sophmore years when he started playing at Fonde with Moses. Back in the early 80s freshman and high school players were not being taken in the first round...too many Juniors and Seniors from College that could contribute right away. Hakeem was a RAW athlete, in the not very skilled in basketball way...he was certainly coordinated. I have hard that this guy is also very coordinated, but does not know the game....the game can be taught....coordination and quickness are both gifts especially in big men. I love the pick. DD
r-fan-since-81 can't understate how wide of a spectrum there is on the phrase "raw athletic big man." For instance, why would Hilario be taken #7 and Badiane #44, when one played on a Brazil club team, and one in Germany. my guess is that there is likely a 37 spot difference in the level of athleticism...the draft comments on Hilario is how "smooth" and "fluid" of an athletic he was. Despite Badiane having superior training, Hilario is just a better overall athlete, yet we think one "raw athlete" is like the next. If the talent pool is so much better, exactly what made Kwama #1, Chris Wilcox a #8 pick; Hilario #7 and Amare #9. What did they all have that Akeem didn't show in getting to the Final Four in the NCAAs...how does Akeem's record drop him 20 spots versus them?? twenty spots is what you are saying. Got to remember than Akeem played in an era where players rarely left the NCAAs before graduating, making the NCAA game much more mature and better in that era, making Akeem's performance in the tourny much more impressive than today's NCAA prospects. As for your comments that your happier he's not a 4yr NCAA guy like our previous 2nd round picks, but instead, an international player. OK, but he had a yr of pro's to be scouted and fell to #44, about 10 spots lower than projected. CD said the Rockets saw him a lot, and he was well scouted. Well-scouted, yet raw, 6'11 athletic big men go in the lottery quite often. Why didn't Badiane? I have to believe there's a noticeable reason why.
maybe it's just a semantic thing...but "RAW athlete" and "certainly coordinated" are almost oxymorons. Hakeem was a raw *basketball* player. He was a very fluid and coordinated athlete from day one. The level of coordination is what makes the difference in athletic raw basketball players as prospects that go lotto in one case and 2nd round in another. Like I said to DearRock, there was a 37 draft spot difference between Hilario and Badiane at equal age, and nearly identical physical descriptions. One was trained in Brazil, one in Germany's top league. both were scouted well. Hilario was described as very fluid and smooth in his athleticism....so was Hakeem.
