Atheist: If your children believe in God, does it not effect you?

Of course it is confirmation bias. Religion by definition is about faith. Practically any major religion logical fallacies and even textual inconsistencies be found in addition to things that defy physical explanation. Faith cannot stand if if it is dependent upon it is logical consistency backed up empirical evidence. It relies upon belief and cannot be understood without that belief.

I don't mean to sound harsh about faith as I freely admit to holding belief that cannot be empirically explained but just pointing out this is the nature of belief.

It is up to those who have faith to interpret what they believe. Certainly non believers are free to interpret things their own way but if they don't believe is there much of a point to it? For example if relate to someone a story about the past life the Buddha where he was a monkey that spoke to a king one could argue that the idea of past lives have no logical basis and that there is no empirical proof that monkeys can talk or even that the king in question existed historically. That isn't the point of the story. As a believer I am looking through it through the lens of faith, a skeptic is looking through it as a different lens. The story though is written for the faithful and not written for the skeptic.

That is why I think like JV that these type of debates are ultimately unfruitful. I can read the Bible and have an intellectual opinion about what I am reading but that isn't the same as whether I am looking at it as someone who believes in the faith behind it.

 

That 86 year old "local man" sounds like a weak idiot and if I was a pastor of a church I would not want him to be part of my congregation because all it takes is some yokel telling him his lifelong beliefs are dumb and then presto changeo! I am sure this "local man" exists, by the way. Good story.

Anyway, you are clearly young and fairly ignorant so I will leave you alone but, damn, you are asking for grief with your bad attitude.

 

Aren't you the dude that had an affair with a zookeeper? I'd worry more about how your actions here on earth affect your own kids and less about how other people deal with their children's religious beliefs.

 

No offense, but your pastor is clearly wrong about the Quran, and arrogant to believe he knows more about it than a life long follower unless he was a bonafide scholar on the Quran. That seems unlikely by what he claims the meaning of the Quran was though.

 

I'm not sure I'd say you have to have faith in order to understand, but I do think you have to immerse yourself in the theology to get it. Even among non-believers who are well educated on religion I see a lot of sophistry -- they have an understanding of the mechanics of the Bible and the church, they've read a lot of secondary material about what was really happening at the council of Nicea, they're very familiar with the Gnostic Gospels, and they know a lot about the archeology around the original Biblical texts, but they don't go to church, go to bible studies, join community groups, or generally talk very much with Christians about what the Christians believe. And when it does come up, they've already got it figured out so they spend their energy evangelizing their disbelief instead of learning. The counter is usually that they grew up in the church and whatnot so they know what its about from before they were enlightened. I don't find that very convincing because, in my experience, the theological understanding of young people even in the church seems a bit shallow and I wonder if the people who left really ever got it in the first place.

If all that seems self-aggrandizing, it probably is. I'm probably wrong in the end, but if I thought I was wrong, I'd probably have changed my opinion. That's not where I come from. I grew up completely outside the church and adopted the lifestyle as an adult. Maybe I'm not carrying the same baggage that a recovering Catholic might have.

 

So many things going on here.

Firstly, the bolded part. I kinda take offense to the notion that "living a Christian life" means you treat your wife/family/neighbors any better than an atheist. You're equating "atheist" with "amoral hedonist." And that just doesn't follow. Being an atheist doesn't innately make you think any less before doing a wrong thing than a Christian.

Second, your thread title seems pretty different from your actual post. The post just brings up the tired, tired point of "well shouldn't people believe just in case?" Notwithstanding that getting yourself to believe something as a hedge seems like mental gymnastics I'm not capable of, what you're really saying is people should act based on theoretical rewards/punishments in the afterlife, not anything to do with doing right because it's... well, right.

Third, the actual thread title. I'm an agnostic, and if I had a kid who believed in god, good for him/her. Only qualifier is if they started taking some things in the Bible too literally ("sodomy is a sin!"), they'd get a talking-to about historical context and minding their own damn business.

 

I totally agree with everything you said. I know that feeling as I once was a believer and I do understand how and why you feel his way especially the bolded part.

You claim that it is a prerequisite that you believe before trying to understand religious text, I respectfully disagree so we can leave it at that.

 

Pascal's wager, doumbest argument when it comes to believe in a religion.

No, it does not effect me. When my kids become adults and decide to believe in something superstitious, well they are free to do so --- but that would still be a dumb decision.

 

bahahahahahahahahaha

 

I like that term "evangelizing their disbelief". I think getting it is the issue. I have an intellectual interest in Christianity, have read some of the Bible, read about the Council of Nicea and find the history of the Holy Land and the Roman Empire fascinating. What I don't have though is a calling to Christianity or what many have termed, a personal connection to God. For whatever reason I don't feel that way and find it very difficult to believe that an omnipotent supreme being could have a personal connection with me anymore than I could with a hydrogen atom in one of my skin cells. So while I might know a lot about Christianity I don't think I am in any position to say what is what isn't the proper interpretation of the Bible. At the same time someone who isn't a history nerd but who does believe in the idea that Jesus died for our sins and feels they have a personal connection with God is going to be in a much better position to say what the Bible means.

I also believe that if you don't behave compassionately in this life you might come back as a lobster in the next so who am I to talk about how crazy someone else's belief is.

I don't think there is a wrong or right about it but I think this is how we treat each other and live in a pluralistic society. Atheists certainly have cause to feel like they have been suppressed and marginalized but at the same time I find it grating when atheists lecture others on what their religion really means.

 

I'd certainly be surprised, but I suppose it makes sense that in the end there are no atheists in my basement dungeon either.

 

Following up on my reply above what people believe or understand or both I am not too bothered by but the reason why I bring this up is about how we deal with each other. Whether someone believes in a man who got nailed to a chunk of wood and three days later rose from the dead or a God who became a man with blue skin and had a son who had the head of an elephant that really doesn't bother me. What matters is how people act on those beliefs. If you are going to compel me to believe in what you believe or kill me because I don't, or have my tax dollars support your belief, then we have an issue. Too often though in these type of debates though it comes down to non-believers claiming they have superior knowledge to believers and that they are the ones who know how such text should be interpreted. I find that pretty presumptuous on the part of someone who doesn't accept the basic premise that this is a holy text to begin with.

Also this isn't just limited to atheists and Christianity but I find this much more common regarding Islam. There are always debates where critics claim they have read the Qu'ran and know better than the believers what the Qu'ran says and how it should be interpreted. We've seen an example of that just in this thread. What I find the most ironic about this is that it is the critics and the fundamentalists who take the most extreme interpretation of Qu'ran.

 

I know right, it's almost like they don't know their own religion lol

 

ToyCen thread lives upto rep. Approved.

 

Either you did not bother to read the OP's post or you have serious reading comprehension issues.

 

if yall have time...creationism debate on CNN:

Bill Nye(the Science guy) vs Ken Ham

Starts at 7:00 PM EST(6 CST)
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/cvplive/cvpstream1.html

 

Dawkins easily decimated Pascal's wager. Life is the greatest miracle and I've decided not to spend mine bogged down by morals given down by child molestors and con artists.

 

If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe. If I wish to preserve myself in faith I must constantly be intent upon holding fast the objective uncertainty, so as to remain out upon the deep, over seventy fathoms of water still preserving my faith. -Johannes Climacus

 

Is that tonight? Doesn't appear to be on. Or is it only online?

 

lol.. you don't have to be a christian to do all those things.. you just have to make good decisions.. i don't base my moral compass on religion.. i base it on how i would like to be treated and in doing so i try my best to treat accordingly.

i'm pretty sure there are plenty of christians "sinning"