Please stop using box scores as your only source as "actual stats" Is your contention that someone else deserves a max or that you would not of given him a max, what would you have given him?
Thank you sir for your reasoned response regarding basketball. Who knew asking a basketball question about a basketball player on our team is in the actual stats on our basketball discussion forum was such a attack worthy awful thing. For the record Beverley, Asik, Harden are my favorite players in thy order. It's sad that some people just use this forum to insult and attack fellow posters for any perceived divergence from what they think a person should think about basketball. Grow up
JR Smith is one of the most overrated chuckers out there. Contract year. Harden is the exact antithesis of that. He can score, create his own shot, get to the basket and freethrow line, at a high efficiency. Even when he is struggling, he can still get you 10fts a game a be a force offensively. JR Smith is a headcase, and if you knew anything about him you'd know why teams don't offer him anything near max contract money. He is an inefficient chucker. He takes bad shots, low percentage shots, and Harden despite all his supposed flaws has 100x the character that JR has ever or will ever have. But this is all moot because op is a massive troll
No I think Harden has been worth every penny, I just was curious how Morey was able to have enough certainty to offer that kind of Money fresh off his 16.6 2011-2012 season with OKC. That also how people accepted the contract by just assuming that Harden would become the superstar a contract like that calls for. Usually a player gets a Max deal for already being a superstar...Harden got a max deal and proceeded to become a Star/superstar. See what I'm saying? Let me totally clear about one thing James Harden right NOW is a superstar and top 10 player in the NBA. Nobody is disputing that. It's just that there are a lot of guys that avg 16-17 points that you would never in a million years consider giving max money to. That was my point. How did Morey and everyone who was ok with the deal know. That was the whole point of the thread.
Because Morey possesses a certain statistical nous that goes beyond a BOX SCORE. Harden at the time had unprecedented efficiency as an offensive player and was rediculous in his point production off the Pick and Roll. Jeff Van Gundy during the playoffs was calling for Harden PnRs all the freaking time
Ppg realise morey would have better stats but just some stats outside the box score which the OP seems to have a fettish for 2011-2012 112.2 offensive rating 9.8 net rating 58.2 eFG% 66 TS%
Harden's synergy stats from his last season in OKC #7 Iso #9 PnR #28 Spot-up #1 Off screens #1 Off Handoffs #3 Cutter Don't feel like digging it up, but he's also got a really high points per possession on drives, as well as fouls per fga. I could see Iso/PnR numbers being inflated due to 2nd unit defenders & the spacing from playing with Westbrook/KD. But spot-up shots and shots off screens, hand-offs, and cutting are generally open shots no matter the circumstances. And his shot selection was all 3's and lane. So at the very least you'd hope Harden would be a Kevin Martin/Michael Redd type star with a best case scenario of Ray Allen/Manu. Remember the guy was the #3 pick in his draft. Pretty attractive guy to throw $$$ at.
Those are very interesting stats and do shed a lot light on how Morey made his decision. So these stats are usually a pretty good indicator of future superstardom. Interesting. Always cool to find the diamonds that no one else seems to appreciate before they get big. Hindsight is always easy.
Literally. Noone (team included) in the arena could see him during his suspension. Playoff suspensions = lack of maturity... another knock against Mr Smith.
I don't know if everybody was making that assumption. Even during the interviews after the acquisition, Morey was very careful in making statements. He used the term "foundational piece". Regarding his contract, Rockets offered him $2.25 M/year more than what OKC was offering. That offer was also for him to come off the bench. So if you think about it, it was not really a big gamble for Morey because somebody was willing to offer Harden almost the same amount of money. OKC would not have made that offer if they did not think other teams were willing to match it. Remember, it's not about your skills, its about what the market is willing to give.
You should've added this to the actual post, because it is confusing some people. Pretty much Harden was being ultra efficient during his last year in OKC behind Westbrook and Durant. Morey took a gamble that Harden would become a superstar if he played more mins and had his own team and it paid back.
And that is why Morey is perhaps the best GM in the NBA and the rest of us are fans. Soon after the Harden trade I posted that Harden is obviously the best SG in the NBA. Harden had every obvious sign of being a super star obscured by his role. Incredibly efficient, scoring overshadowed by playing with 2 obvious super stars, and very young. Even a cave man could see it.
I don't think the numbers justify what he was doing in OKC. I was amazed watching him when he playing in OKC. Watching him, you could tell he could be the best player on the court any given day. It was pretty ridiculous. I remember how ecstatic I was when we got him.
LOL at LOFs not fully appreciating Harden's role in OKC especially in the playoffs.. and top it all by comparing Harden to JR Smith
This may come as a shock to the OP (and others) but NBA executives actually use other stats than PPG, FG%, RPG and APG when analyzing players and making decisions. This is what John Hollinger wrote right after the trade. I'm sure Morey did the same math (and then some): http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/PERDiem-121031/john-hollinger-all-breakout-team-2012-13
Don't know what was so confusing about it. It was a pretty straight forward post. Mr he problem just lies in a lot of nasty people on this forum just salavating to call people abusive names, question their fan hood on any pretext real or imagined in order to feel superior in some small petty way. Your post was well thought out and basketball related and much appreciated.
Morey gave him $80 million based on his demonstrated ability to create good shots in the Thunder's stupid iso offense. It was a gamble but not near as much as most people said and it paid off.
I only think Morey traded for Harden because he couldn't get Howard and he saw The Great Jerry West going balls to the wall to trade for Harden and jumped in. And if Jerry West is going after a player that hard then that player must be worth having. If Morey is as much of a genius as we like to say he is _ he would have been trying to trade for Harden as soon as the finals were over and before signing free agents.
James Harden is a dynamic offensive player. He can get you points in many ways. Off dribble, fast break, pull up shot, getting to the lane, drawing fouls, etc....There is no arguing this fact. James Harden is really bad on defense. He doesn't play his man hard instead relies on teammates to pick em up, or switch out entirely. Doesn't run hard except on offense. James Harden is a turnover machine. Sloppy with the ball and throws tantrum instead of getting back on D. With all that being said, so to factor in what he gives you in terms of points, and assist. Minus what he gives up nightly on bad defense, and turnovers. I think he is a star with potential to become a superstar. However I think the max contract before realizing that potential may have stunted his development.
