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Atheist Teen Forces School to Remove Prayer

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Jan 27, 2012.

  1. bobmarley

    bobmarley Contributing Member

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    “Our Heavenly Father,” the prayer begins, “grant us each day the desire to do our best, to grow mentally and morally as well as physically, to be kind and helpful.” It goes on for a few more lines before concluding with “Amen.”

    This does not promote a certain church. Our Constitution is meant to protect us from churches who want to determine how all Christians should believe. But our country has never been one to discourage religion, like how in God we trust is chiseled above the head of the president of Congress' seat and it is on our currency.
     
  2. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I was just answering your original question as to if I thought this may affect my ability to practice my religion. I wasn't commenting as to what the law does and doesn't protect because that wasn't your question. Every time there is a "win" for an atheist, it could lead the way to lessening my ability to express my faith. Perhaps it won't be in a legal way, but it certainly could in a subtle way.

    I actually had an atheist complain about our church web site to the Mayor, Governor and others because we wrote "All Saints is a faith filled community...". She felt it was unfair to her to have to read that, disregarding the fact that our church web site wasn't referenced on any city or state web sites or literature. Fortunately nothing ever came of it, but I had to deal with her ridiculousness.
     
  3. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Indeed. One might even argue that people who want to see things differently than they really are would selectively quote from documents.

    Here are some other portions of the NW Ordinance:

    Here's the famous section that contains the sentence you quoted:

    It's interesting that the sentence quoted so often by Fundies is actually an intro to a section that deals with Indian relations while the other mentions of religion are stand-alone sections or articles. In short, they are not talking about their own government, but how best to indoctrinate Indians: schools and religion will temper their savage ways. Here, we see the germination of the Indian policy that would be enacted in later years with great harm to Native American culture. It is not in any way some affirmation that the founders were closet Fundies. Indeed, the langauage throughout the NW Ordinance is very much in keeping with the Jeffersonian idea of religion, which is not surprising since much of the NW Ordinance was based on Jefferson's Land Ordinance of 1784.
     
  4. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Assume that boy wears that way on his onw, which he definitely shouldnt if he wants get laid, I will say the principal should tell little Jessica mind her own business.
    however, there is a principal difference in terms of state endorsement between this example and the real banner.
    If the school encourages kids to wear like that at school, little Jessica has a constitutional claim against it. Now, if the school encourage kids to wear religious outfits according to whatever beliefes they have, that is where it gets interesting. i will tell little Jessica to get lost if she complains.
     
  5. Texas Stoke

    Texas Stoke Contributing Member

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    Sounds like they are describing Obama!
     
  6. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    excellent point
     
  7. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    true, true

    but such a ruling only applies to public forum where the govt is involved, pretty limited, wont one say. there is plenty private forums, and even in public forums when govt not involved for one to practice religion. i dont see such a ruling is a significant abridgment on reliogious practice. on the contrary, it strikes a good balance between religoius and nonreligious folks in public forums.
     
  8. mclawson

    mclawson Member

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  9. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    Good for her.

    The founders were above all, seperatists.

    If you want to pray to a mystical being, that by all accounts of evidence doesn't exist, fine. Don't force anyone else to do the same. That would be absurdity to the highest degree.
     
  10. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    Religion and Christianity needs to be kept out of classrooms.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sBNckmixj5E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    /Thread...

     
  11. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    1) It doesn't matter whether it is a certain church or a broad theological philosophy.

    2) Pointing to something that was instituted in the 1950's as part of an anti-communist scare tactic is not an argument for the legal establishment of religion by the state. It was a mistake then, and it is a mistake now, and it needs to be corrected.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    My Point is . . . . if one person disagrees with something
    Should it be changed.

    i.e. My school Mascot was the bulldog .. . if I want to change it . . should it change

    Alot of folx disagree with Darwin . . should it be pulled. . .

    I think we are reaching a saturation point
    where Minority rules is the default.

    Why is one thing ok . . for Majority Rule [i.e. religion]
    but another is not . . . . . .who chooses? Why do they get to choose?

    Rocket River
     
  13. BetterThanI

    BetterThanI Contributing Member

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    Agreed. I really thinks it's just a matter of time before "One nation under God", "In God We Trust", and every other govt endorsement of a religious viewpoint (even ceremonially) ends up being ruled unconstitutional.
     
  14. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    One More thing . . . . folx ***** a brick about this stuff
    but DIE to wave their confederate flags
    and claim those people have the RIGHT to wave them . .

    I guess a prayer is more offensive than the symbol of slavery and evil
    folx will even fight for Swastikas . . . .
    but
    PRAYER is the enemy? Really?

    [yes, some schools are even named THE REBELS and use alot of confederate symbolism]

    Rocket River
     
  15. BetterThanI

    BetterThanI Contributing Member

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    If it violates the US Constitution, yes.

    If the mascot being a Bulldog violates the US Constitution, yes. But it doesn't. So, no.

    If it violates the US Constitution, yes. But it doesn't. So, no.

    That is the purpose of the US Constitution: to protect those whose viewpoint may not be the majority. The rights of the individual are just as valid as the rights of the mob.

    Because one violates the US Constitution, and the other doesn't.

    The US Supreme Court. Because they're the US Supreme Court.
     
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    That is what people said about slavery too.
     
  17. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    NOW we're cookin' with gas! I was worried about this thread but now we have confederate flags, swastikas (sp?), and slavery in heavy rotation.

    By the way, does anyone else read "Athiest Teen Hunger Force" when glancing at this thread in the D&D list?
     
  18. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Admittedly as an atheist, that's all I need to read right there. Granted, if she was far enough south of Maryland, I'd probably advise against the suit. Also, I imagine it's ultimately the parent's call to sue, and I don't know that I would have a problem if they decided not to just for peace of mind. Cynically enough, I hope she gets a good scholarship essay out of it.
     
  19. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    I am really glad they are removing that incredibly dangerous prayer.:rolleyes:
     
  20. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    In other news there another fight at Dekaney High School. Good thing they don't have any prayer problems there though.
     

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