>> Hakeem - 1984 Ewing - 1985 Robinson - 1987 (didn't play until 1989) Shaq - 1992 Duncan - 1997 (no, he's NOT a forward, despite what your all star ballot says) Ming - 2002 >> Sabonis really belongs on that list of truly great centers - 1986 (drafted by Portland, but held by the Soviets until '96; oh what could have been) And before Hakeem: Sampson - 1983 (well, who really knows how good he could have been?) long dearth... Parish - 1976 Malone - 1974 (1976 - ABA/NBA merger) Walton - 1974 McAdoo - 1971 Gilmore - 1971 (1976 - ABA/NBA merger) Cowens - 1970 So much for no great center between Hakeem and Kareem. The 70s and 80s were the golden age of centers as far as NBA history goes. Kareem - 1969 Unseld - 1968 (a 6'7" center, unbelievable in this age) Reed - 1964 Thurmond - 1963 Wilt - 1959 Russell - 1956 Mikan - 1946 and maybe a few others that i have never seen or heard of. 21 great centers (again, assuming Yao Ming realizes greatness) in 56 years. So it seems that a great center comes along about every 2-3 years. But only ONE out of 29 (30 soon) teams is going to get that center. As it is, there is only one great center right now, two if you include Duncan (Robinson isn't exactly great anymore and is retired next year anyway). But there are over 10 great guards (tmac, kobe, kidd, payton, carter, iverson, pierce, francis, allen, jordan, stockton) right now. And another 20+ that are very good. It seems like every team has a great guard. Who was the last small man not named Jordan to dominate the league? Yao Ming may just become the best center for the next 10+ years. Sure, other great centers may come along, but what are the odds that they'll be able to land in Houston? Great guards are always involved in numerous trade/free agent rumours, but most teams always hold on (or try very hard) to their all-star centers. When they lose them to trade or whatever, they almost always worsen as a team. How much of an improvement is Lebron James over Francis/Mobley? How much worse are the Rockets without Yao? Who will dominate his mismatches more and who will be harder to replace if gone? Will Orlando sans Shaq ever go back to the finals (This is no disrespect to T-Mac. He really belongs in Houston )? How about New York sans Ewing? Boston without Russell, Cowens, Parish, Walton?! San Antonio without Robinson? Houston without Olajuwon? Wait, wait! A potential replacement has been found. And it didn't take decades. That was pure luck that Houston was able to DRAFT a potentially legendary center. Milwaukee still has yet to replace Kareem. Some teams have never had a really good center to replace. Utah? Pheonix? (Those donut teams usually stay donuts.) The Lakers and Celtics have been truly blessed to have at least 4 HOF centers. Incidentally, they also have 29 championships between them. As far as trades go there are two well known "rules": the team that gets the best player wins, and don't trade big for small. Well we know that Yao is big and James is small (relatively). That much we know. What we don't know is who is better except that James has yet to play a single NBA game (does this sound familiar?). So we have one certain and one unknown, and just based on that in addition to numerous other intangibles i really don't think the Rockets should do this hypothetical trade . It's looking like 1984 all over again except Yao is definitely more like Olajuwon than Bowie and James is ? anyone's guess really.
There are huge bias decisions here. I was a huge fan of drafting Ming and was really on the Ming bandwagon before actually seeing him play. But I have watched alot oh him and he doesn't look to me like hes going to be a superstar. Granted I might not know that much...but I do know that he struggles with the dribble post up, and people are shooting over him alot (players under 6'9"). I do not see Ming ever being at Shaq's level. I think alot of you people have never even really heard about Lebron James and what a good player he could turn out to be. Would I make the trade? Probably not, but it's not because Ming is that much a better player. It is because I don't have the mindest of goign after the high schoolers.
I think Yao is a new breed of center. It is very difficult to make a head to head comparison with Shaquile. Shaq can never pass as good as Yao, never shoot FT as good as Yao, and never shoot as accurately as Yao. And it is just the first season for Yao.
Oh by the way Curry and Chandler are now looking like busts (in relation to their high draft positions). I will like us to revisit this topic after Lebron's first year in the NBA. I like the hype surrounding Lebron and I would love to see him play in the NBA but his success is not a guarrantee. He may not leave up the hype.
Ming has shown signs of dominance in 10 games without any training camp. How many rookies can say they did that? Also, he will be selected to the all star ballot. Only one other NBA rookie has had that privilege. Besides the obvious height advantage, how you can not like Yao's all around game. Remember when people were saying he needs to lift weights and gain muscle to be effective? Well the guy is effective now!!! Ming will probably still gain that muscle mass in his upper body and then can you imagine how dominate he will be. There are only two things that can slow down Yao Ming's progress. 1) Cuttino Mobley and Steve Francis 2) The Refs. Even if Lebron James is as good as Tracy McGrady or Kobe Bryant which is a "big if" I would still choose Yao Ming. I am looking forward to seeing Lebron James play. http://nbadraft.net/profiles/lebronjames.htm
We must keep in mind that Lebron James didn't score a 100 like Dajuan Wagner in the high school, his stats in high school is also comparable to that of Amare Stoudamire's. I don't mean stats mean everything, but it does mean something. In this case, it means competition in high school isn't taken seriously by scouts and GMs. Otherwise Wagner would've gone No.1 as the mini Wilt. Maybe James can be the next Kobe, MaCrady or even Jordan, but I'm not holding my breath. Wagner is shooting at 27% and averages 11 ppg on Cavs. In 2 games he played so far he shot 6-22. The jury is still out on high schoolers. The Cavs seem to love the potential of high schoolers. James was invited to participate in a scrimmage against some Cavs players. They praised his game but no stats were disclosed so no one really know what happened. Much of it is just hype. Ya know, I would say nice things too if I know my team is gonna tank the season to get Lebron James.
Wagner has played well in one game and bad in the other. I think Wagner should have been the #2 pick in the draft, becasue he will be the #2 player out of the draft after a few years.
I would not take James over Yao. You make a very good point. Big skilled centers are harder to come by. Furthermore, history has shown that Big guys are needed to win championships (with a few esxceptions of course like Jordan.)
As much as I would like to have James, becasue I think he will be a star. I would take Yao over him anyday. Yao is going to be one of the most popular players ever in the NBA. Plus I think Yao is going to lead us to a championship or two or three. James is Kobe at best he is not MJ. Never will there be a player as good as MJ, he won all those rings on his own.
There is a "yao or lebron" poll on fanhome.com. It is not a Rockets Forum so the voters there are not homers. The current standing is 80.4% Yao and 19.6% James.
would you trade Giant Panda for Black gorrila or Polar Bear? Yes or no based on who you are. If you are a bllionaire from FL, you definitely say hell no. Comercialism always domonates sport. Yao just like giant panda from China, is one of the rare species facing extinction. Black players occuied huge slices in NBA, although the black only count for 10% US population. The fact is white american watch a bunch black up and down in the whole season. Now we got giant panda called Yao Ming, who can help attracking millions if not billions eyeball from both sides of Pacific Ocean. There is where the money is. So Yao is unexpendable. Rox can buy any PG, SF,or PF, even C as long as their deep pocket exist. As Yao 's performance reach near elite level, he will be kept tightly as rare diamond in Rox
Ok this is simple. Would I take James over Ming? Answer: Yes Why might you ask? Because, contrary to what everyone in here seems to think, this guy has played against NBA talent, Tim Hardaway, Penny, D-Miles, Ricky Davis, and even MJ. The likes of Kobe, MJ, and Shaq have gone to his HIGHSCHOOL games just to see him play. Reports have MJ trying to sell the kid on the idea of signing with Nike? The best player of all time being pressed to get a highschool kid to sign with Nike? That should within itself tell you something. Every NBA player thats seen him have all been left dumb-founded by the kids ability. Have you guys heard of players such as Anthony Roberson at Florida, Carmelo Anthony at Syracuse? They played for Oak Hill Academy the #1 team in Highschool last year and they played against Lebron and his team of his has beens and the kid single handily two years in a row took the game to the wire. And Roberson/Anthony are both going to be top 15 picks in the NBA draft, Anthony prob top 5. Anthony after the game said James was the best player hes ever played against. Tim Hardaway has been quoted as saying that the kid is going to be amazing on the NBA level. John Lucas simply said "Whoever has the #1 pick in the draft in the lottery and takes him....wont be in the lottery the next season" Michael Jordan when asked what he thinks Lebron James will do in the NBA said "Just look out for him" Never has a high school kid gotten such amazing reviews from "EVERY SINGLE GM IN THE LEAGUE" sometimes at least ONE GM isnt sold on a kids potential to dominate, but in James case every single review has pointed to domination. I grew up in the same neighborhood as Steve Francis and I have seen him play from a courtside view and on the playground I could tell he was going to be something special. So I needed to get a first hand view of Lebron so my friends and I made a road trip to Ohio, when we went to Phili, to see the kid play and we were lucky enough to catch a game. The kid is not a "kid" he is every bit of 6'8/6'9 hes built up...hes not an immature kid at all...hes listed on espn at 240. He has a NBA ready body. The first time I saw the kid dribble I was like 'uh oh' he can handle the ball like a 6'0 play ground player....He brought the ball up and crossed over "A DOUBLE team" and pulled a NBA 3 and the net got mixed up...he went on to dominate like no other player ive seen at that age. The quickness/Strength/handles/Elevation/Vision/shooting range were soo impressive that me and my friends couldnt stop talking about him. But the most impressive thing about him was his understanding of the game....the kid cold pass soo well it was scary, I saw some Jason Kidd like passes out there. This will be the player that the NBA marketing people ride into the sunset. I believe I saw someone say that Ming is more marketable than this kid? What some of you might not realize is that NBA is still biggest in the United States. And kids will relate to Lebron James more than they will with Yao Ming. The guy cant even speak English yet for goodness sakes. James style of play is more appealing than Mings...that is why a Shoe company has never gotten huge off a "Centers shoe" Rebok=Shaq? Nope. Duncan=Nike? Nope. Ewing=The pumps? Nope. Robinson=?? Nope. James is the future of the NBA and if you wouldnt trade for the Future then your being ignorant. I have seen people post that you wouldnt trade Ming for anyone in the league right now. This statement disturbs me a bit. You guys really wouldnt trade Ming for Kobe, TMac? Hell even KG or Duncan...those two might be a lil bit more shady but id still pull the trigger. I am a full-blooded Rockets fan, but I am a realist Ming is not an un-tradable commodity in todays game. In conclusion, James has the talent to change the game. He will be battlinig with Kobe and TMAC for that best player in the league title at the age of 20, I can say that without hesitation. Ming is 22/23 and he needs more physical maturing than James does. I see Ming having a good career dont get me wrong. Ill say the best we shall see out of Ming is 22 and 12 and around 3.5 blocks. Which is definitely good. But you cant pass on James. He is being prepared for NBA life and NBA style play already at this age. He is practicing with pros...and from the articles you read everywhere he is living a pro lifestyle right now. He is a celabrity, I read a quote on espn.com of someone saying, "If you think the the ink Ming is getting now is too much, wait for Lebron James next season" James is getting VIP passes to the clubs, groupies, Free concert hook ups from Jay-Z and Nelly. This guy is already a superstar...he has a 20 million dollar shoe contract in front of him already from Adidas and or Nike. But hes got the game to go along with the fame. I would trade Ming for him without thinking twice about it. You Rocket fans are loyal, but after you see the kid play youll be changing your minds quickly.
I think James will be good, may even become the best NBA player. But that maY not be enough for me to trade Yao for him. The key reason being that great Centers win championships over all GREAT guards (except named Jordan/ Zeke). Yao will also make a difference in creating the deep pockets for the team. James will get most of the sponsorship for himself. Yao will get it for both himself and the team. PLus we already have good / great guards...so his ability to improve the the team is NOT that significant versus having a great big man.
Kobe and T-mac won't bring you championships, at least not without the big man. There will be only one Michael Jordan, period. Nowadays every talanted kid wants to play Jordan and many are trying the same style of play as him. In the league ther are Kobe, T-mac, Steve, etc. But none of them will dominate the entire NBA as Jordan did. Many Jordan-wannabes only. I dont' care how good LeBrone is off the real NBA court. It does not matter. I will wait and see him come to NBA and be at the same level as Kobe and T-mac, against the best of the NBA.
See there are a lot of decent ideas in here in why to keep Ming over James. But im looking at impact and domination potential. As much as I see Ming having potential to be special, I also see the possibility of him becoming no better than Rik Smits. Hes got ways away from being on Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, or Shaq level. As a matter of fact its very hard for me to see him dominating the league like those guys did because those guys were phyiscal and aggresive forces who combined power and skill. Ming is 7'6 and very athletic but he doesnt have much of a power game and he seems to shy away from contact and not dunk the ball when he can. He is high on Finesse and at the center position dominating physical play combined with finesse gets it done. Not 7'6 Fadeways. For those who say he can develop a power game think for a second which dominant big guy was all finese and then developed a power game at 25? Physicalness has a lot to do with how you grew up playing the game and how you learned playing...And coming from China be prob didnt run into games like these the dominant guys did growing up in the hoods or playing on the College level. They all had power games or a semblance of it at the early stages of their careers. He needs a LOT of work. The arguement a great center wins championships over great guards. Lets analyze this one shall we. Shaq would have zero championships without Kobe. Hakeem would have zero championships without amazing shooting from his guards and Clyde/Horry/Smith/Elie and you notice when the games on the line..meaning last 1 min of the game and you need buckets guards are usually the ones doing it in todays game. Horry, Smith, Elie, and Clyde were the ones shooting at the end of the game...and you will say cuz Hakeem got doubled right? Thats exactly my point you can take the ball out of a big guys hands at the end of the game easily. If John Starks wasnt horrible in game 7 who knows what would of been of the Rockets. MJ had Scottie, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, Horace, BJ, and Paxson. His teams had so much talent and MJ dominated at the end of the game because its difficult to take the ball out of his hands when the games on the line because of his ability to dribble and shoot from the outside. Kareem was on the Lakers with Magic/Byron/Worthy/Green....and Magic was Mr. Clutch. Wilt had Jerry West...Elgin. Mchale/Parrish? Had Larry Bird. In the past 20 years the NBA has developed into a guard/foward league. Where bigger guards with skills dominate, especially at the end of the game. Now Big guys can dominate but they always have great guards.....and great guards always have good bigs and other great players with them. MJ didnt carry the Bulls....but he was the best player in the league. Hakeem didnt carry the Rockets by himself...he was the best in the league at the time and won but his team came through HUGE for him. Duncan had another good big guy in Robinson...and the guys making the big shots in the 4th were Avery/Sean Elliot/Ellie and yes Jaron Jackson. The fact you can take Centers and PF's out of the game in the last minute of a close game makes me wanna take a Magic/Bird/MJ/Isiah/Kobe/TMAC player over a Shaq/Duncan/Ewing/Robinson/Karl Malone/KG/Barkely. Put a list of the best PG/SG/SF of the past 20 years and then put a list of of the best PF/C of the past 20 years and compare championships won. You might be a lil bit surprised if you think "Centers win championships over guards" Ming will be no Shaq. And he will have to be lucky to be as dominant as Ewing, Hakeem, and Robinson were in their primes. Everyone GM and scout, whose JOBS it is to spot talent says this guy will be super dominant. They know better than the average fan. And I have seen him first hand...the key is you guys are speaking out of ignorance cuz you havent seen him in action. James is being dubbed as a 'cant miss' prospect who will be as good as a Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, or Michael Jordan level. Now tell me would you trade Ming for any of those 3? I guarentee if you polled GM's all 29 would take james. Lets not fool ourselves, Ming is not dominant yet and he doesnt have the game or the body or the physical/aggressive tools to be consistently dominant in the league. And he may never get there. Every GM and Scout says hes a sure fire superstar. Ming isnt....Nuff said.
Is not bird a PF? And, though Yaoming is not as strong as Shaq/Ewing/Robinson.. However, he is HIGHER.
Quote from Franchise4life, "Ming will be no Shaq. And he will have to be lucky to be as dominant as Ewing, Hakeem, and Robinson were in their primes" You call Ewing and Robinson dominating. My foot. Ewing never won a championship ring, and his offense is totally one dimensional. That extra long step to the basket was so ugly to watch that it might as well be traveling. Robinson got his only because of the arrival of Duncan. Robinson definitely not a physical player. Both of them were good, maybe great, players, but hell no to dominance of their games. Ming is already better than Rik Smits. The only reason why it hasnt shown up yet in his stat is the limited playing time and his teammates still trying to or willing to learn to play with him. Could Smits move, shoot or pass like Yao at this stage. The answer is No. Ming will be no Shaq, I sure dont want Yao to ballon up to 350 and end up with an arthritic toe. Shaq has passed his prime, Ming will only continue to improve and surpass Shaq in his own rights, Yao definitely have more skills than Shaq and more fun to watch. Shaq was so dominating inside only because the league allowed a football player to play on a BASKETBALL court.
You must got this impression from Yao Ming's first 10 NBA games. If you watched the Laker/Dallas/SuperSonics game, you will have a different opionions. He had 3 dunks in the laker game and 4 dunks in the Dallas game. And one dunk over 7-6 Bradley. Check this video link if you don't believe me. http://www.nba.com/media/rockets/ming_y_dunk_021121.avi Shawn Bradley was one of the key defense for Dallas this year. BUt Yao just totally blew him out in competition. 30-0. They guy is not shy from contact and physical play. If you watch the SuperSonics game, you will notice that it is the sonics player who are the one shy from physical play with Yao Ming. Gary Payton, one of the league best point guard, dare not/did not try to drive to basket all night long when Yao Ming parked near the paint. He had 3/16 shooting. If, a big If, James is a Jordan, Bird, or Magic Johson, I may consider trading Ming. But that's a big IF. I just don't believe how accurate/insightlyful are those scouting teams. You can only tell how good a player is when he is actually playing on the NBA court. From history's point of view, most super stars are not number 1 drafts. Jordan is #3, T-mac is #9, Kobe is #13.
