From '08-'09 to '10-'11, Have we gotten better? (Poll)

My goal: Below is a fairly simple analysis of our 2008-2009 starting roster, as compared to our roster at the end of the 2009-2010 season. Making the huge assumption that we will keep the players we have and not add any others going into next year, have we gotten better between 2008 and 2010? Which roster would you take, and why? I have chosen not to include scoring averages, etc., because as the league team scoring averages go up and down year to year, it wouldn't be a fair tool for assessment. (Note: This is not intended to be an assessment of one individual player, good or bad. This is an overall team assessment.)

10/2008- McGrady, Artest, and Yao made up the Rocket's version of the "big three," following the trend of a handful of other successful teams.

4/2009- Prior to Yao's injury last year, but after we'd been able to watch them play together for a couple of months, most would agree that we were a legit top 10 team, but not a true title contender.

2/2010- Prior to this year's big trade, we all knew that the team we had was a #8 playoff seed at best. Of course, we hoped that we'd either pull of a trade, or get enough cap money to sign a big-time free agent.

4/2010- After the big trade, most of us collectively let out a sigh of relief. We now have Brooks at the point, with a year more experience under is belt (With Lowry playing huge doses of minutes of the bench as well). We have replaced McGrady with Martin, and Artest with Ariza, while keeping the 2008-2009 power forward (Scola), and bringing back Yao after a year of rehab.

Instead of our bench being made up of Landry, Wafer, and Head, Deke, and Hayes, we now have Budinger, Battier, Lowry, Hill, and Jeffries.

2008...............................2010
Alston/ Brooks.....................Brooks/ Lowry
McGrady/ Battier..................Martin/ Budinger
Artest/ Landry.....................Ariza/ Battier
Scola/ Hayes.......................Scola/ Jeffries
Yao/ Deke...........................Yao/ Hill

I'll repeat the question here: Have we gotten better between 2008 and 2010? Which roster would you take, and why?

(It may take me a second to get the poll right. Please be patient for the first few minutes.)

 

I'll start. I never thought Alston could be a starter for a true contender. He was a great ball-handler, and a solid defender, but consistently shot a low percentage. Brooks is a better shooter, and isn't afraid to drive or take the big shots when needed. Brooks has plenty to work on still, but I would take Brooks OR Lowry over Alston as a starter.

Even before 2008 we already knew McGrady was injury prone. He needed the ball in his hands at all times. Martin can be a part of the team play in Adelman's system, and can still score big chunks (but as noted in other places in the forum, without even being noticed). McGrady is 2008 was more proven, and had really performed well in the playoffs, albeit is comical "it's on me" comments. If I'm being honest with myself, I think I'd take the 2008 McGrady over 2010 Martin, assuming I didn't know about the downturn his career would quickly take.

Artest was fun to watch, and made sense for the team that we had at the time. Ariza had a tough start to the season, but we've seen recently what he can do when he is able to let the game come to him (with Martin, Brooks, and Scola being the more "go-to" players). I think the slight edge goes to Ariza here, because of his age and attitude (we don't have to wonder if he's going to quit and make a rap album, punch out a fan, etc.).

Scola is Scola either way. Would you rather Scola years younger, or Scola with two more years of NBA experience. Well, with what he's done since Landry's departure, I'll take the 2010 version of Scola.

You'd be crazy to take 2010 Yao over 2008 Yao, post surgery and a year of rehab. We all are hoping for the best, and some of us are even expecting it, but there is still a possibility that he won't be completely healthy, or ready to go for multiple reasons (health, endurance, etc).

As mentioned about, the bench differences are 2008's Landry, Wafer, and Head, Deke, and Hayes, vs. 2010's Budinger, Battier, Lowry, Hill, and Jeffries.

We have similar depth at the point (Brooks vs. Lowry), and much better depth at the 2/3 (Budinger vs. Head and Wafer). We've lost Deke and added Hill, which injects youth and ejects experience, while obviously losing Landry, and gaining Jeffries. This is a toss-up in my book.

Brooks, Ariza, and Scolaare all wins. Yao and McGrady v. Martin are still up in the air and could be loses, as well as the bench being a toss-up, but overall I prefer to be in the position we are in for the 2010-2011 year over the 2008-2009 season.

 

I said "I never thought," which is past tense, which is different than the present tense, 'I don't think.' The statement "I never thought," along with the fact that we're talking about 2008 Alston, implies that I didn't think it until it happened. You can't use things that happened to a player post-2008 in an argument about the 2008 version of the player.

Regarding your second point, I gave the nod two Ariza exactly because of your third paragraph, which is that Adelman has these guys playing like a team. I agree that Adelman has them playing better than they are talent-wise, but that has to be at least partially because they are willing to buy in and not hold the ball forever and take terrible shots, as Artest was prone to do.

To your third point: I agree, somewhat. Budinger has already been about as consistent as Wafer, so that's a wash. The backup 4 spot is a little scary, but I feel like between Hill and Jeffries, we'll be okay there.

Thanks for writing out support for your argument. I'm very interested to hear other fan's take on this topic.

 

It's fair, if you think that we have a chance to contend for the title in 2010-2011, but it's not if you don't think we can. Either opinion is legit, but that's the whole premise of the discussion.

 

Another person complaining about a post, rather than responding to it? Why don't we something something something...

Kidding. You're right. A lot of polls...maybe this is what happens when we all start accepting that the season's pretty much over.

 

You're kidding, right? All of your questions are answered in the original post.

1.
"Making the huge assumption that we keep all of the players we have and don't add any other next year" (because we can't accurately predict who we will get next year).

2.
"2008...............................2010
Alston/ Brooks.....................Brooks/ Lowry
McGrady/ Battier..................Martin/ Budinger
Artest/ Landry.....................Ariza/ Battier
Scola/ Hayes.......................Scola/ Jeffries
Yao/ Deke...........................Yao/ Hill"

3.
The fact that the comparison is between our team at the start of 2008 vs. the potential start of 2010-2011 implies that you can't use injuries after '08 to make decisions about the start of '08.