Just some thoughts of mine on the up coming draft. Senior point guards-- It's a rather bland year for point guards. Khalid El-Amin, Scoonie Penn, Mateen Cleaves, Pepe Sanchez, and Matt Santangelo have not impressed a lot of scouts. Khalid and Scoonie are a pair of 5'10" guards, whose teams have been a little shaky this year. Penn has shot a pathetic 37% from the field this year with a assist to turnover ratio at less than 2:1. Some members of this board were a little upset when Penn wasn't mentioned in someone's Mock Draft. At this point, the possibility of landing in the 1st round is remote for this young man. I think El-Amin has actually improved his stock somewhat. He's still a 2nd round prospect in my book. Has shown some ability to carry his team. Improved his quickness and outside shooting. But still, he's undersized and has trouble getting off his shots at times in college. That's not going to translate too well in the pros. Shooting at 41% from the field with an Assist to Turnover ratio of exactly 2:1. He's fun to watch but I think he'll be smart to stick around at UCONN for his senior season. Mateen Cleaves has had a real weird season. He answered a few questions about his game during the season, but raised a few different questions also. Has improved his outside shooting. Up to 34.5% from 3 point land. Leadership on and off the court has been invaluable to the Spartan ball club. He seemed more confident in his offensive game. Penetration was a strong suit as usual. His defensive abilities are rock solid. But a funny thing happened as the season progressed. He started taking some ill advised shots and racked up a series of high turnover games. He FG% is now a paltry 42% and his turnovers are almost a 4 a game. Tried to do too much this season. For a guy who wasn't blessed with all the physical talent in the world, he needs to be executing at near perfection in order to make it to the next level. Has shown huge flaws and a 1st round selection is not guaranteed. ------------------
Both will get picked in the first round. Cleaves doesnt score alot but he can pass the ball well. El Amin is a really fat pg. ------------------ President of the Moochie Norris FAN CLUB [This message has been edited by Francis3 (edited March 15, 2000).]
Well here some of the analysis off my site at www.draftsource.net on PGs. Don't got El-Amin yet cuz we don't think he's a top prospect. Here's profiles for Penn, Barkley, and Cleaves Scoonie Penn - G Ohio State - Scoonie Penn is a 5-10 PG that is very quick off the dribble. He does an excellent job of creating plays for his teammates and has the ability to shoot off the dribble. Penn is a slashing guard with a solid outside shot. A team that is in need of a floor general to run the show would do well in drafting Penn. When having a player that small on the floor, you always wonder whether or not he will be a liability defensively. Penn has very quick hands so he should be able to get 2-3 SPG in the NBA. However, if he gets posted up by bigger guards, he will need defensive help from his teammates. Penn should thrive on an NBA team that already has scorers in place but just needs a good solid PG to organize the offense. Erick Barkley - G St. Johns - Erick Barkley is a drive and dish PG with a quick first step. He does a very nice job of breaking down the defense and finding his teammates. Barkley also possesses the capability to finish his own drives. A strong point in Barkley’s game is his ability to push the ball in transition and lead the break. Barkley will flourish on a team with athletic players that can run the floor. Barkley has shown that he is capable of running a team and should continue to develop that at the next level. On the defensive, Barkley has shown very quick hands and good anticipation as he gets plenty of steals. He will need to improve his straight up defense in order to be effective against the top PGs in the NBA. The area where Barkley needs work is on his outside shot. His shot can be characterized as streaky. However, Barkley brings many positive attributes to the table which should make him a top 10 pick if he decides to declare for the draft. My opinion is that Barkley has the potential to be the best PG in this draft. Mateen Cleaves - G Michigan St. - Mateen Cleaves is the type of PG that creates off the dribble for his teammates and is a very vocal floor leader. He plays a very unselfish style of basketball which is conducive to good teammwork. Cleaves definitely puts the team goals before his own. A weakness in Cleaves game is that he only has average explosion and quickness for an NBA caliber PG. This will hinder him when tries to break down NBA defenses and lead the fast break. However, Cleaves is a very intelligent passer and good finisher when he gets into the lane. His lack of a perimeter shot will definitely need to be worked on also. ------------------ The Countdown has been terminated..and March Madness has arrived!!! ..And we're there to report it... www.draftsource.net
i like both Penn and El-Amin's games, but since he's a UofH Cougar... my favorite PG this year was Gee Gervin, even though he's pretty much a SG in a PG's body ------------------
I'm sorry rocketsfan34, but Scoonie Penn does not have a solid outside shot. The guy is shooting 37.4% from the field and only 30.2% from 3 point land. Shooting under 38% from the field is horrendous. He's a nice college guard, but he's not going to be a good NBA point guard. I wouldn't exactly call him a floor general either. He's one of the new breeds of scoring point guards. He gets off 12.6 shots per game. If you need to contrast that with someone, Kenyon Martin only averages 12.55 shots per game. His poor play was the reason why Ohio St almost fell out of the top 25 early in the season. Michael Redd is reason why they are considered contenders again. And your assessment that Mateen Cleaves' lack of explosion and quickness will hinder him in leading a fast break is wrong. The best thing about Mateen Cleaves is his ability to lead the fast break. He pushes the ball up the floor as fast as any player in college and his decision making in the open floor is usually top quality. You don't need to be super fast or quick to consistently lead a good fast break in the NBA. And of course guys like Andre Miller and John Stockton would be a good testament to that claim. So if Mateen is going to find a niche in the NBA, it's going to be based on his ability to play defense and force the tempo on offense. I do think he'll land somewhere in the mid to late first round. But I wouldn't be shocked if he slipped in the 2nd. ------------------
Oh yeah, I do agree that Erick Barkley is the best point guard coming out. Has matured a lot since his high school days. Back in high school, he was strictly a hot dog looking for the highlight reel passes. Now he's more focused on running a team. Controls the tempo of the game as well as any guard in the nation. Has showcased a better offensive game since Ron Artest took off the NBA. Does take a few too many ill advised shots. He's the best creator in college basketball. It is pretty much a lock that he'll be declaring early. ------------------
The whole idea of analysis on the site is not based on a players college stats. What the goal is to try to do is watch his skill level and plug him into the NBA game. The reason Scoonie Penn takes so many shots per game b/c that is what the Ohio State offense dictates. Also the solid outside shot refers to Penn's ability to shoot when he comes off a screen in a pick and roll set. This is the type of role he will have in the NBA; at Ohio State too much off the offensive pressure falls on him and Redd. Notice the last sentence "Penn should thrive on an NBA team that already has scorers in place but just needs a good solid PG to organize the offense." The opinion of our writer at draftsource is that Penn will be able to do a nice job of setting guys up on a team that already has scorers in place. He is definitely not a guy to build around ie. Francis The part about Mateen Cleaves is an NBA projection once again. What you have to understand is that our draft writer is making a prediction of how Cleaves quickness level will work in the NBA. Cleaves may be able to overcome this as Stockton and Andre Miller did but its still a question. Our draft writers opinion is that Cleaves quickness and explosion is not up to par with the stud pointmen in the NBA. Compare Cleaves athletic ability and explosion with the likes of Marbury and Francis Anyone can look at a college stat sheet and interpret a players stats, but it takes some educated guessing to project a players talents to the next level. Drafting is not a perfect science. ------------------ The Countdown has been terminated..and March Madness has arrived!!! ..And we're there to report it... www.draftsource.net
Um....who cares what the draft guy from your site thinks? I've probably followed the career of these players more so than he or she has. If that person is allowed to make observations and projections of how well a collegiate player can play on the next level, so can I. I am just using some extra statistics to back up some of my observations since most people on this board have yet to see most of these players. So what if a guy looks like he has a good jumper or looks good passing, in the end it all comes down to production. Looking at stats is a very good basis to start analyzing any player in any sport. Scoonie Penn has always been a point guard with a scorer's mentality. He was that way at Boston College. He's the same way now. The fact that Ohio St has a go to scorer in Michael Redd and a complementary scorer in George Reese(13 ppg, 52% from the field) is more than most college teams have. The scoring load is not that dependent on Scoonie Penn himself. Yet he still finds a way to get it off more shots than what is preferable. And how the heck am I suppose to figure out this narrow definition that an outside shot refers "Penn's ability to shoot when he comes off a screen in a pick and roll set." Using a more universal definition, Penn does not have a good outside shot. What do teams do when they play Ohio St. They try to stop Penn from penetrating and getting his teammates involved. They hope he settles for outsides J's and keeps his teammates just standing around. You can rationalize all you want about how Penn MIGHT be able to succeed in a ideal situation at the next level. But my quick evaluation is that he's a 5'10" pg with good, but not great quickness. And he can't knock down the perimeter shot with consistency. And all of that spells trouble. Here was the initial point I was trying to argue about Mateen Cleaves. "A weakness in Cleaves game is that he only has average explosion and quickness for an NBA caliber PG. This will hinder him when tries to break down NBA defenses and lead the fast break." My other post only pointed out that great explosion and quickness are not needed to lead a very good fast break. In fact, those qualites aren't necessary to be a stud point guard. I understand Mateen Cleaves doesn't have the athleticism of a Marbury or Francis. The only thing I claimed in my short evaluation of him is that you don't need great speed or quickness to run a great fast break, which was insinuated in your site's assessment. That was the only point of discussion. Mateen has all the tools to run a great fast break. Mateen pushes the ball up court fast, finishes well, and makes great decisions. To me, that qualifies him of having the ability to be very good in the open court at the next level. That's all I was arguing. Also, Francis and Marbury are rather middle of road when it comes to running a fast break, so they wouldn't be very good qualifiers to your argument. You could use a guy like Jason Kidd who runs the break better than any player in the NBA. But he isn't exactly your stud athlete. ------------------
El Amin and Ceaves, although good players, will not go particularly high due to size. Penn may go very quickly. ------------------ HOOP-T Hey Shaq, Acme called, and they want their bricks back!
Does anyone here think that Gee Gervin is actually NBA material. He wasn't even the best player on the UH squad, so I see him as a late 2nd rounder at best. ------------------ KISS The Floor Beneath ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok, I'm sure someone's going to jump all over me, but as far as I'm concerned Ed Cota is at least the third best point guard in the draft. No, he is not an agressive shooter, and no, he doesn't play defense, he is bar-none the best passer/distributor in the draft. His pre-draft position reminds me of Mark Jackson. Cota primarily expedites and facilitates the scoring of points for his teammates above all else. ------------------
On a side note Da Man, if you would like continue this debate, please email the site writer. ------------------ The Countdown has been terminated..and March Madness has arrived!!! ..And we're there to report it... www.draftsource.net [This message has been edited by rocketsfan34 (edited March 16, 2000).]
jerinrulz, i agree with you that Gervin will be a late 2nd rounder, at best... so who do you think was the best player on the squad this year?... George Williams?... cuz that's who i think it was... man, this guy is gonna be a good one ------------------
As far as Scoonie Penn - I seriously doubt he will go in the first round. Penn's shot is nothing to write home about. Can get them to drop but is not a top shooter. Penn's size is a major problem. He will be posted up and shot over contantly. This is his biggest drawback/ liability. Overall a player that will make it in the NBA like Jacque Vaughn from Kansas/Jazzholes although Scoonie is slower. ------------------ We would like to get rookie Francis on the break for some easy scoops in the first quarter...
I seen Barkley play a lot, but never have seen him have to defend in the post against a larger player. Could he play the two without being a defensive liability? ------------------ Moochie hear no evil Moochie speak no evil Moochie see no evil
About Penn shooting more than he's asked to is partly like you said he has a scorer mentality, or also he's just worried about scoring especially in close games. He wants the ball in the clutch times. Ohio State also wants to give him the ball. And our evaluation is Penn's a small PG with quick hands, quick of the dribble, sets up his teammates nicely, good leader, and good finisher. About the solid outside shot argument, we can probably agree in the middle where he shoots well from outside, but sometime inconsistent. I'm sure we can agree on that Cleaves does not have the best quickness, however when you don't have that quickness, things come into question. You're right that some PGs have overcome this problem as in Kidd, Stockton, and Miller. There also a lot many that haven't either. All we are saying is that lack of speed will hurt him when he leads the fast break or trying to penetrate. He may overcome this like you have stated however, its still a question. ------------------ The Countdown has been terminated..and March Madness has arrived!!! ..And we're there to report it... www.draftsource.net
