Could put a poll, but this is more interesting. I say Fallujah is pacified after a bit tougher fight than Samara but we end up destroying it to save it. Also, after we pull out and, Fallujah will be reoccupied by elusive insurgents just like Samara.
Is this based on your expert analysis as based upon what you've learned from sources such as The Guardian, Al-Jazeera and Michael Moore? Great work. I'm dying to read the analysis behind your conclusions.
You could be right, but the pressure has got to be kept on. If they are left to their own devices the insurgents will get better organized and more effective. I don't think it's possible to proclaim those guys are insurgents and these guys are not unless they are shooting at you. We just don't have the intelligence on the ground. al-Zarqawi and his group have got to be shut down or at least quieted by a signifigant margin in order for elections to be possible. The destruction of Zarqawi and successful elections are the only hopes of the U.S. getting out of Iraq any time soon, I'm not holding my breath but my fingers are definately crossed
The evidence he cited in his post is recent history with Iraq. He discussed a similar situation and how it ended up, and predicted a similar outcome. Did you offer up a guess as to what would happen? I tend to agree that we will do some heavy damage, take some casualties, but probably less than 25. But the insurgency is prepared, and will continue to cause problems.
Let's hope the taking of Fallujah doesn't start a full blown holy war! ---------------------------------- Saudi Religious Scholars Back Holy War Against U.S.-Led Coalition Forces in Iraq BEIRUT, Lebanon Nov 7, 2004 — Prominent Saudi religious scholars urged Iraqis to support militants waging holy war against the U.S.-led coalition forces as American troops prepared Saturday for a major assault on the insurgent hotbed of Fallujah. The 26 Saudi scholars and preachers said in an open letter to the Iraqi people that their appeal was prompted by "the extraordinary situation through which the Iraqis are passing which calls for unity and exchange of views." The letter was posted on the Internet. "At no time in history has a whole people been violated … by propaganda that's been proved false," Sheik Awad al-Qarni, one of the scholars, told Al-Arabiya TV. "The U.S. forces are still destroying towns on the heads of their people and killing women and children. What's going on in Iraq is a result of the big crime of America's occupation of Iraq." http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=233010&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
haven't saudi religious scholars ALREADY declared holy war on us? if not, they're late to the party. jihad was declared over 10 years ago from saudi's son, Mr Bin Laden.
Wow, we wouldn't want that... Isn't there already a 'holy war' going on against us? EDIT: Max beat me to it.
Let's see if you feel the same way when the body count of americans go from one or two a day to 100 to 200 a day.
What happens after we take Fallujah? A McDonald's will be built, conveniently located on the corner of Infidel Drive and Hussein Parkway. Customers will get an Abu Ghiraib trading card with their Happy Meal. Collect all 75!
objection: non-responsive. i'll ask again...didn't they already declare holy war on us?? these guys are urging Iraqis to fight us. great. what's new about any of that?
All I'm saying is that the US has been warned that if they Storm Fallujah and kill a bunch of people, then the people (not just insurgents) but the people will be called to rise up and fight. We won't be just fighting the insurgents, we'll be fighting everyone! It could get very ugly. That's all I was saying.
i hear ya. but, again...i just don't see that as any different than what we've already seen. the insurgents were among "the people." those from among "the people" who wish to fight, seem to be fighting. do you think attacking fallujah is a mistake at this point? getting past the "we shouldn't be there" point...we are there. since we are...don't you think it might be a good idea to on the offensive against those who've had us on the defensive for so long?? i'm not a military planner...but that seems like a good idea to me.
Good, Now maybe the people will start thinking for themselves and ignore these idiots that are high up in the Muslim faith. Holy war....Great, you go fight it Mr. Mullah. DD
The citizens of Iraq have to decide what they want, if they want to be ruled by the insurgents then support them, if they want free elections then support Iraq's provisional government and the allied forces. Personally, I want to hear much more support from Iraq for the American efforts. Is there no one in Iraq who is thankful for American's spilling their blood and spending their treasure in behalf of their liberation?! You cannot liberate a people who do not want to be liberated. Where is our support? We hear nothing in the American media but angry complaints. If this is an accurate portrayal, then I vote to pull out and leave them in shambles.
seems that just like our country, they are pretty split over there. Some like their American overlords, and some don't. But it's pretty naive to believe that those, between 20% to 70% of the population that hates us are going to be changing their opinions very soon. We are the away team, so we have to try our best to keep the fans we have. then again, i am opposed to the whole thing, and we should stop beating around the bush and just set up our command centers around the oil centers and let them fight their own civil war.
And that, my friends, is the bottom line. I believe, deep down, a vast majority of Iraqis wanted to see Saddam go. I also believe, deep down, that a vast majority of Iraqis do not want to be occupied and dictated to by Americans in the process.
Things are going much better than initially predicted by our own commanders - nothing like Hue, but it's not over yet. So did the majority of insurgents leave or are they waiting in hiding? Perhaps we should not telegraph our intentions without first blockading a place to intercept everyone leaving. It seems somewhat empty at this point to capture this place if they all left to fight again. Or perhaps much fewer insurgents were needed to hold Fallujah to begin with and this is the best the bad guys can manage.
