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The Enemy: Militant Islam, not Terrorism

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Sep 23, 2004.

  1. BrianKagy

    BrianKagy Contributing Member

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    Seriously, this is a mild warning to those of you who think it's cute-- take that hornfans.com **** somewhere else.

    If you don't find a topic interesting, don't respond.
     
  2. Gutter Snipe

    Gutter Snipe Contributing Member

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    You can argue over semantics and labels all you want, but there are a couple of points in this thread that can't be denied.

    1. There is a large group of people who can be characterized or labeled as "militant muslims".

    2. Thanks to cleric-led schools they have a large following and a easy base for recruitment.

    3. They are a threat to peaceful muslims and moderate Islamic governments AND America.

    4. America can't fix this problem. They can try to nudge the ball in the right direction, but that is all.

    The only true long-term solution for this problem has to come from within the Muslim world. Fomenting hatred against others has always been an easy way to distract attention from real societal problems, but for the Islamic world to get closer to being part of the modern world, they have to improve their educational systems and stop teaching hatred.
     
  3. BrianKagy

    BrianKagy Contributing Member

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    I'm not going to edit my previous post and pretend it didn't happen, but let me just ease off the tone there a bit.

    Don't copycat that particular tactic, please.
     
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Two problems with the article. First of all Saddam is not a religious man so to use this as a justification for the war is ridiculous. No one had a problem with the citizens of Iraq and Iraq is probably one of the least Islamic militant countries in that region.

    Secondly, if you stomp out miltant Islamic clerics, you will still have the people who end up being terrorists and they will just find some other justification to use their tatics. Because Islam masks what the true causes of their hatred are, whether they be legitimate or not, those reasons will still be there.
     
  5. mulletman

    mulletman Member

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    whats more scary than militant islam in the middle east is militant islam here in the US.

    when you consider people like john walker lindh, jose padilla, Ryan Anderson (the army reserve officer that tried to provide intelligence to people he thought were terrorists), Yousef Yee (the chinese american that converted to islam and then tried to give secrets to terrorists) amongst many others, there has to be some suspicion that much of the same rhetoric/propoganda/misinformation spread at mosques and gatherings in the middle east is spread here in the United States.

    I remeber reading an article in the houston chronicle a couple of years ago where they interviewed some african american muslims on the then recent flare-up between india and pakstan over kashmir. they went on to say that they could see themselves fighting in kashmir to help "liberate" it from india. i thought it was disturbing that some people that have absolutely no connection to the region and probably have little to no knowledge of the history and circumstances of the region would be willing to die for it.
     
  6. Sane

    Sane Member

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    This whole cleric-led schools thing is really blown out of proportion. The Governments are very strict on Imams now, and that's the only place where someone could get very influenced.

    I have never in my life heard of or seen these "madrassas" you guys speak of, and I have LOTS of friends who are extremely religious. I've been around the Middle East many times.

    It's a thing of the past. Madrassa just means school in Arabic, and that's all it is. I think you would find it EXTREMELY difficult to find a school that spews this "hateful" material you're talking about. Do they teach Islam to Muslims? Yes. Do they teach them History? Yes. But you don't have schools saying that we shoud kill all Israelis or any bull**** like that.
     
  7. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Sane, that just isn't true. Hayes may pick his spots, but he certainly does the give and take as well as anyone. Hell, sometimes he does it to distraction! You don't recall his long arguments/discussions with MacBeth?? Geez, some of them were so detailed, that they were hard to read. I certainly don't agree with all his positions on issues, but I can say that applies to many other folks here as well.

    BTW, I hope we see MacBeth again, soon, and that he is in good health.
     
  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    And its absolutely false to compare the situations. The Inquisition and Crusades were started by the heiarchy of the Church, for the purpose of supporting the Church.

    The terrorists may use Islam, but they aren't trying to support Islam through their actions, especially while killing other Muslims. They aren't supported by most Muslim leaders. And lastly they represent a fringe group.
     
  9. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Sane, I'm not going to say you're 100% wrong, cause clearly you have more knowledge and experience in the area then me.

    However, one of the few times we've been able to see inside the daily lives of these children recently was via the HBO documentary (can't remember the name right now) created by British filmmakers in a Palestinian city - if anyone knows what I'm talking about, it has a very shocking ending. Anyway, they just followed this kid around for a couple of months and there were definitely situations in schools where it clearly was shaping these youths thoughts to be anti-Israeli and anti-American in violent ways.
     
  10. mulletman

    mulletman Member

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    are extremist madrassahs really fictional? not according to president musharraf:

    He said that Pakistan's Army was taking action to end the teaching of religious extremism and hatred of the West in the religious schools known as madrassahs, but that given the remoteness, the inhospitable terrain and 2,500-mile length of the border where extremism most flourished, the job was difficult.

    "We are squeezing the religious teachers who preach extremism, we are taking them to task and removing them, but it is a slow process because there are thousands of mosques, and you don't know who is saying what," he said.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/20/international/middleeast/21NATION.html
     
  11. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    The Mullahs and the Imams that preach jihad against the infidels in the Holy Land do not seem at all similar to you to the Bishops and Priests that called for crusade against the heathens in the Holy Land? Come on.
     
  12. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    I think it is called Death in Gaza. The part where they were playing Jews and Arabs was a little disturbiung, though if you think about, its much like cowboys and Indians (fortunately, I don't think the people who played C&I as kids grew up to become murderers of cowboys or Indians).
     
  13. AMS

    AMS Contributing Member

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    I still think that the word madrassah has been misused like no other. There are madrassah's in India too, and I have a family who couldnt afford to send their child to a good public school, so they sent him here, He now speaks english, has learnt the Quran byheart, and also was arguing with about the whole US elections 04. A lot of the madrassahs are like the one i just spoke of, because I have personaally spoke with people who were educated at thes, adn also ive actaully spent a whole day at a few of these madrasahs. They dont sit there and tell the Students to go kill all non Muslims, etc etc.
     
  14. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Yep, that's the one.

    I don't think kids really play Cowboys & Indians much anymore...maybe I'm wrong though. I know when I played it I was just as happy, if not more so, to play the Indian as I was the Cowboy - though the whole situation is different.
     
  15. VinceCarter

    VinceCarter Member

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    StupidMoniker


    Hey, i'm not going to change your opinion on what you think of Muslims(just giving you my prospective on things)....

    Iran is not a religous state anymore.... was 10 years ago... but not anymore ... they as a matter of fact want to be more westernized...and actually are... i won't get into the Iran topic cause their situation is different...


    you believe this dude(Musharraf)?.... just to give you a briefing on what's going on in Pakistan:

    For Pakistan allowing the U.S to put troops in Pakistan to attack Afghanistan Pakistan was allowed a Loan (which they were trying to get for years) + were given special economic packages such as contracts on certain business aspects.... anyway the gist of it is that Musharaf will agree to anything what the U.S believes... he is saying this so the loans keep on coming in and so the U.S will be on his side ....

    By the way the whole teaching by Imams of terrorism is way over exaggerated… these schools are VERY FEW IN NUMBER….a lot of this happens in VILLAGES with people who live in MUD huts…. They live by their OWN laws…not even the government interrupts them b/c they are considered useless to society….and did I say these people are illiterate therefore how can they study Islam?(they take hearsay and make up the religon...these peeps are screwed)…. If you have done any studies on Islam whatsoever you would have to be educated… anyway these are the people Osama recruits…he recruits scum and makes them do his dirty work…I understand Arabic and have seen the videos by Osama …the guy’s messages are FULL of POLITICS ....he basically uses Islam as his vehicle for reason of his own political views.

    So my question to you is how can it be militant islam?... there is nothing in the book that says to kill people who are not followers of the religion… where does militant islam come from then?....politics.

    It’s unfair how people make judgments on a religion based on what they hear…study the religion and then make you own conclusions.
     
  16. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    It turns out that the Palestinians are just as happy to play the Jew as they are the Arab (because they view the Jews as strong). I agree that the situation is much different, as the cowboys and indians weren't killing each other when I was a kid.
     
  17. Mango

    Mango Contributing Member

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    OK, thanks for the update on the population stat.

    The literacy rates and educational issues I mentioned for the Arab World seem to be correct since you avoided that part of my post. Misdirection & obfuscation seemed to be your intention.


    No


    As expected.
     
  18. Mango

    Mango Contributing Member

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    You are bringing up the <i>Muslim Brotherhood</i> concept again?

    You left a recent thread when I started to point out numerous exceptions to the <i>Muslim Brotherhood</i> concept.
    <a HREF="http://bbs2.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83651&perpage=30&pagenumber=2">If we keep up the neocon/Likud policies we will be just like Israel.</a>
     
  19. gotoloveit2

    gotoloveit2 Contributing Member

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    So you should apologize to all the victims killed by all these moronic Muslim terrorists all over the world, if you haven't done so. By your statements, they are still Muslims even they have committed all these atrocities in the name of Islam. And may I say even among themselves over the years, brothers killing brothers. Since those "brothers" of yours had gone to meet all those virgins in heaven, I think it's up to you to pick up the slack and clean up the mess. Would you?

    If an "Idiotic" High School keeps chunking out bad students, don't you think there might be something wrong with its education. Of course, if junks go in, most likely junks come out. So probably you can blame it on the society at large. But if it is such a great school, shouldn't less junks come out. It sure doesn't look that way to me. Rather pulling themselves together to build a better society peacefully, we see more and more Idiotic grad taking revenge on the rest of the society. It may be the bad teachers (all these radical clerics, just in case you don't get it), may be the poorly-equipped facilities, may be some of the teachings itself, or may be, just may be it wasn't such a great school after all.
     
  20. wizardball

    wizardball Member

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    .... a brother is a person who follows the religion... nobody calls a "terrorist" a brother!!! ... he's a sinner...... going and killing someone is AGAINST ISLAM ... Sane made a mistake by saying everyone is a brother regardless of their actions....someone who murders innocent people is NOT A BROTHER....cause then that person obviously is not following the religion..... there are rules in the religion that are soo friggin simple......these killers are people with no hope in life and have nothing to lose cause they have already lost what they had...so religion is not fueling their emotions....it is anger and revenge...they just use the religion to justify their actions....which is absurd...

    anyways you guys need to read about the religion.... the thing is nobody has time to read about the religion and take what they hear and base their arguments around them.....

    .... Bill Maher talked about how the U.S has being bombing countries for years....what happens ...his show gets canceled a day later...democracy you say...freedom of speech?....nope just national interest at stake...

    its all politics...that's why politics sucks cause you never know whats true and whats not...religion is used as the excuse and is easily understandable rather than something that is ambiguous .....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm for example lets say politics:D
     

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