Yes, this seems to be a worsening trend. Which poses a dilemma for us, and, if we keep putting pressure on them, for China as well. Eventually, the regime in China will fall. It is not sustainable in the modern era. As that starts to happen, though (and we're seeing that currently) it will grow more desperate to maintain its power...whichvwe also seem to be seeing. It's a symptom of China's modernization efforts that I'm not sure they anticipated. As you lift everyone out of poverty they begin to expect more freedom and independence. Adherence to social norms is deeply ingrained in their culture, but that change will happen. It is inevitable.
Considering that the Chinese government enjoys a much higher approval rating than the US government - this according to a recent Harvard study - there is a much higher chance of the US regime falling before China, as a matter of fact we are already witnessing continual civil unrest against the US regime in many urban centers. American people are tired of the rampant racism, the poverty, and the disastrous response to COVID. "In 2016, the last year the survey was conducted, 95.5 percent of respondents were either “relatively satisfied” or “highly satisfied” with Beijing. In contrast to these findings, Gallup reported in January of this year that their latest polling on U.S. citizen satisfaction with the American federal government revealed only 38 percent of respondents were satisfied with the federal government." https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/st...rvey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/
A good podcast. http://m.espn.com/general/play?id=29605340 Mentions the obsession to find the next 7'6 guy for both sides in a market 4x bigger than the US.
You really see democracy going away in the U.S.???? Highly doubtful. Replaced by ... what? Or even...how? Military coup? This sounds pretty farcical. And you put a lot of faith in those polls in China? First, the media is tightly controlled...most of its citizens are likely aware of the issues. Second...who will actually say they don't like the current government...and therefore be subject to 're-education'? But that does indicate that this change will take a long time, but it will inevitably happen. As people become more prosperous, they demand more freedom, choice, and access to information.
US hasn't had a meaningful democracy since, well, its inception. Just look at the recent handling of COVID, the government has literally handed out several TRILLION dollars to prop up the assets of the wealthy elites, yet they can't agree to extend the $600 weekly unemployment benefits for the working class people. As for the polls, they are conducted by Harvard researchers. I could also tell you that my friends and family in China, from rural folks to white-collar workers who had been educated abroad, have generally favorable views of the current Chinese government. They have their share of complaints too, but nothing close to challenging the legitimacy of the government. Of course I'm just a guy on the internet, so I'll defer to the research done by serious academics.
Not surprising. That's how a sports school is like in China.It's expensive,treats students like axx,and won't teach them anything good. Most of the students are not gonna become real pro sportsmen.Coaches won't tell their parents so they can keep paying tuition. When they find students with real talent,the school train them and sell them to the sportsteams.
This is a highly stupid study... Does this consider the fact that dissent and criticism against the Chinese government is not tolerated?
First, that has nothing to do with democracy or not, and second, you didn't answer the fundamental question: Do you really see our current form of government going away? Replaced by what? By what means? Good data points...but what do you think impressions would be in Hong Kong? And how those same issues might then reverberate throughout China ?(which is WHY the Chinese government is working so hard to remove capitalism and democracy from Hong Kong). I don't see this happening any time soon, and the Chinese government has been the one example where they've managed the communism/capitalism bridge pretty well, but eventually the populace will, I believe, chafe at the restrictions imposed on them. As I said, adherence to social norms is much stronger there which will certainly mitigate that, but then China hasn't gone through a major economic downturn, either (everybody's happy in a booming economy).
The fundamental meaning of democracy is "rule of the people". Yes US citizens participate in elections, but they are voting for candidates picked out for them by partisan machinations, and the resulting government is one of plutocracy that by and large does not represent the interest of the people. The US political system gives its citizens the illusion of choice, portraying Democrats and Republicans as two entirely different camps, but the fact is the two parties have a lot more in common than they'd like to admit, and neither party cares about the 95% of regular Americans. China has elections too, by the way, and yes Chinese people laugh at them, but at least they know it's a sham, whereas in the US the working class will fight each other tooth and nail over this "sacred" sham. Do I really see the current US system of governance going away? Frankly I am pessimistic. Americans are a gullible bunch as whole, and the standard of living for American working class, while deplorable for such a wealthy country, is not so dire as to push large numbers of the population into open revolt (although we do see pockets of resistance). What could the current form of governance be replaced with? How about a system that balances the interest of the elites with the interest of the middle and working class? How about a system that offers healthcare for all, reasonable cost of higher education, and subsidized childcare for the working class parents? A system that focuses on building the aging infrastructure in this country instead of destroying other countries' infrastructure just so the oil and defense industries get their massive payday? The wages of the American working class have *decreased* over the past 30 years when factoring in inflation, while the US economy has grown four-fold, so all that wealth went directly to those who were already wealthy. I mention this because this is the direct result of the US governance, under the laws of which national banks and other corporations are bailed out with trillions of dollars because they are "too big too fail", yet when the average Joe defaults on his mortgage, he loses his house. Is that "capitalism" or "free market"? You tell me. As for the impressions in Hong Kong, I can tell you that the opinions are very divided, but that the majority of Hong Kongers are sick and tired of the rioting by the "pro-democracy" protesters, and that many Hong Kong citizens as well as the vast majority of business owners welcomed the National Security Law passed by Beijing. China doesn't want to remove capitalism from Hong Kong, this couldn't be further from the truth. China just wants political stability in Hong Kong. Hong Kong never had "democracy", definitely not during its colonial days, when it was literally ruled by fat white people from Britain. Hong Kong has had some semblance of democracy since its handover in 1997, but the city has largely been ruled by the billionaire class. Does that sound familiar to any other place we know?
There is no total democracy if there are governments with politicians that have ambitions towards power. It's a hamster wheel, at least most of people have freedom of speech may I say freedom to vent.
That has been happening pre-Xi. They were giving them freedom little by little... like slow lift of the 1 child policy, some city dwellers can have 2 kids for instance. I think that has worked to some extent to keep people at least peaceful. They would not open all dams and they are smart about it. And they didn't even need to put blame on the Uyghurs, the Uyghurs' temperament is closer to the Turks, hot tempered. So there was already unrest and killings (Sort of civil war) before the re-education camps. It was more of an ethnic hate between both cultures that climaxxed. I haven't followed up on the Xi regime other than his dream of a lifelong tenure. I only followed his soccer dream of making the World Cup.
I am not a republican, but the state does not control local police in the USA. Nor should it. Reform has to come from a groundswell and local efforts. The USA has a plague of politically illiterate people expecting a president to change everything. Presidents (especially orange inflammatory ones) can certainly make things worse. But to make things better you can start with your own state senators, national senators, and congressmen. You cannot expect a president or a party to control police. To think otherwise is naive and counterproductive. Regarding Covid, I'm not sure there's a lot of evidence of the entire Republican party covering up their dealings with Covid. There is a luddite president who is disingenuous enough to think that not measuring means there's less cases. But plenty of moderates/fiscal conservatives (myself, a trained Data Scientist) believe in distancing and masks but not full shutdowns, which triggers the SJW virtue signalers. In short, everything you just said is more nuanced than you said - and - bonus - it has nothing to do with China "appearing to be like WW2 Germany". It's major cognitive dissonance to become righteously concerned about a man being killed in broad daylight in the United States and then throw up our hands about concentration camps in 2020. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" - Martin Luther King. I think a lot of people nowadays think "Injustice I see on Twitter is worse than injustice that I don't understand." If I have to watch what to me is approaching propaganda levels (though I 100% believe in the cause) during NBA games, I think there's space for a discussion about China being xenophobic and totalitarian.
Well said, I might circle back to the topic. I was mostly referring to the US past status of a self proclaimed 'World Police' waging war in the name of liberation and democracy, but on foreign soil until they were attacked during the incidents of 9/11. The Xinjiang issue isn't similar to the black people's history IMO. It's similar to the Israli and Palestinians except China's party got more power. It's about co-existence. There are two cultures clashing that are vastly different and that have hated each other for a very long time. People from the West can't even understand the level of hate and misunderstanding. Yeah, normal Uyghur kids play with ethnic Han kids, it's mostly elders and fanatics. And of course the CCP did a very bad job, they are of course favoring the Han Chinese. And yeah, there were several terrorist attacks too but it is obviously not right to set up camps.
I have no illusions about total democracy, that's why I called for a government that balances the interest of the wealthy few with the interest of the middle and working class. As the US stands today, it is the very definition of plutocracy. And freedom of speech is also relative. In China the government censors its citizens directly, in the US it's the "cancel culture", the "political correctness police", the pro-israel lobby, etc. Imagine any NBA coach or GM publically denouncing Israel's treatment of Palestinians, which by any reasonable measure is far more atrocious than whatever Morey thought he was tweeting about. You think any esteemed US senators will stand in support of such freedom of expression? That Josh Hawley will demand NBA to be tough on Israel in light of its atrocities?
I agree with the general spirit of your message, in particular this quote - "I think there's space for a discussion about China being xenophobic and totalitarian." The problem I find with that is very few Americans are interested in a discussion; instead they just use it to confirm their preconceived prejudices, or worse, to use it as a tool for political manipulation. If one cares about justices, if one is committed to fighting xenophobia and oppression, then they should stand for the rights of the Uighurs and the Tibetans along with the rights of blacks and latinos in America, the Palestinians, the Kashmiris, the Kurds, and all others oppressed groups around the world. And practically all politicians who are riling against "concentration camps in Xinjiang" have been mum about the migrant camps in America and the plight of the Palestinians. If someone is yelling "support for Hong Kongers" and "Back the Blue" at the same time, then that person is the worst kind of hypocrite, along with the Marco Rubios, the Tom Cottons, the Josh Hawleys of the world. For the small minority who actually care about what's happening in Xinjiang and the plight of the Uighurs, I am always open to have a serious, earnest discussion.
The CCP is disgusting. I see we have the same handful of brain washed stooges coming in trying to defend it. This case is just a symptom of a larger problem... Western corporations tolerating a horrendous government because they can profit off of it. People are starting to get sick of the CCP and the cowardly Western corporations that have no convictions other than profits.
I actually understand why many Americans do not want a fair discussion. They feel threatened by what the Chinese Communist party represented and they are a direct rival. They'd rather listen to the Republican camp than really question what's going on. The Xinjiang conflict has cost thousands of lives on both Han's side and Uyghur's side as the Syrian conflict and many others have. Palestinians at least got the Gaza Strip. It's really a complicated story in this territorial, religious and human dispute. Israel is an ally to them. It's almost normal to have a pair of colored glasses on seeing things.
