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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Labour Leader Keir Starmer says Prince Andrew should be cooperating with the FBI regarding the Jeffrey Epstein investigation, and that it is strange that he is not doing so.

     
  2. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    So, the russians also tried to influence brexit? Shocking. I wonder of putin told trump and boris he didn't do that too...

     
  3. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Perfect example of how trumpism has made lying "a thing"...

     
  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced an October 15, 2020 deadline for agreeing to a trade deal with the UK, or else it will be time to move on with WTO terms.

    Boris Johnson: UK ready to ‘accept and move on’ if no EU deal by October

    If London and Brussels don't reach a deal by October, the U.K. will be ready to accept this and "move on," Prime Minister Boris Johnson is set to say Monday. The two sides aim to agree a deal on trade and future relations by the time of an October 15 meeting of EU leaders so that the agreement can be ready by the time the Brexit transition period expires at the end of the year.

    "If we can’t agree by then, then I do not see that there will be a free-trade agreement between us, and we should both accept that and move on," Johnson will say Monday, according to a statement released to the press ahead of this week's round of negotiations, which begins Tuesday in London.

    "We will then have a trading arrangement with the EU like Australia’s," Johnson added. "I want to be absolutely clear that, as we have said right from the start, that would be a good outcome for the U.K. As a government we are preparing, at our borders and at our ports, to be ready for it."​

    Of course the UK and the EU will still be able to agree to a trade deal at literally any time after that. But in order to have systems in place for January 1, there has to be a decision made as to what the regime in place will be at that time in order to process goods and people at borders and the ports.

    Contrary to what many people believe, they can reach a decision on a trade deal pretty quickly from where they currently are at. But implementing it at the borders, the ports, and in the other administrative, government and corporate processes that will put such a deal into effect takes a little longer.

    The very best thing that could happen here is if there is no trade deal agreed to prior to December 31, 2020, which would enable to the UK to walk out clean as a proverbial whistle, without any entanglements with the EU. Then if they were to negotiate a trade deal and a security deal (but not a fishing deal) in the first quarter of 2021, that would be total victory for the UK and for Boris Johnson. Even Nigel Farage would smile and nod in support of this course of action.
     
  6. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The UK and Japan have agreed to a historic free trade agreement. This is a very big deal and it is surely just the first of a veritable tsunami of such trade agreements over the next decade or so with nations around the world.

    UK strikes ‘historic’ trade deal with Japan

    The UK has struck its first big post-Brexit trade deal after reaching a historic agreement with Japan that is expected to increase trade by £15bn a year. The deal was reached after a compromise on agriculture under which the UK will have access to export quotas for cheese and other products that have not been used by the EU, said negotiators.

    Toshimitsu Motegi, the Japanese foreign minister, and UK trade secretary Liz Truss confirmed their agreement in principle to the new deal via a teleconference on Friday morning London time. The agreement is expected to be finalised in October.

    “This is a historic moment for the UK and Japan as our first major post-Brexit trade deal. The agreement we have negotiated — in record time and in challenging circumstances — goes far beyond the existing EU deal,” said Ms Truss. “Strategically, the deal is an important step towards joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership and placing Britain at the centre of a network of modern free trade agreements with like-minded friends and allies.” The TPP is a sprawling multinational trade pact.​

    This deal establishes direct relations between the UK and Japan, without the EU being involved in any way. The deal is expected to be finalized in October, presumably with implementation coming into effect around the beginning of 2021.

    As far as the reference by UK Trade Secretary Liz Truss as "an important step towards joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership," which is a 'sprawling multinational trade pact', joining that would be a HUGE mistake, and I hope that the UK is wise enough to not actually follow through with that. These 'sprawling multinational trade pacts' tend to be unmanageable, not to mention being almost impossible to modify or renegotiate.

    However, a bilateral trade agreement, such as the one announced today between Japan and the UK, can and presumably will be revisited every 10-20 years or so, as needed. The world is a constantly changing place. It is a lot different today in trade terms than it was 20 years ago, and it will very likely be at least as different again 20 years from now. Bilateral trade agreements, and not sprawling multilateral trade agreements, are the way to go.
     
  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    As far as what is motivating Boris Johnson to bring up the Internal Markets Bill at this time, it appears that the EU is taking some rather extremist positions in an working group that is charged with working out the details of these arrangements for the real world. By passing this bill, PM Johnson is establishing some boundaries that will 1) ensure that the sovereignty of the UK is maintained over its own territorial matters, and 2) eliminate the possibility of inappropriate EU meddling, after the transition agreement has expired.

    Boris Johnson fightback: PM plans 'to rescue Brexit' from 'meddling' EU-Remainer alliance

    The BBC's Adam Fleming told Andrew Marr that the Government launched its controversial new Brexit bill this week in response to the "extreme positions" that the EU had taken in talks. The former Brussels correspondent for the BBC said: "It is two things: It is the behaviour of the EU in the talks right now in the Joint Committee, not in the trade deal talks, which is hammering out the details of how the Northern Ireland deal will work out in the real world.

    The original Telegraph article read: "Ultra-Remainers still afflicted by a hysterical determination to always see the worst in Britain, have accused the Government of turning the country into a pariah state. Throughout the Brexit negotiations, the EU has been motivated by a sinister determination to retain as much power as it can over the UK, in defiance of the votes of 17 million people.

    Early on, Brussels realised that the delicate issue of Northern Ireland could be used as a mechanism by which to neuter our negotiating position and undermine Brexit itself. European negotiators are attempting to use whatever leverage they think they possess, including the Northern Ireland Protocol, to chain the whole UK to EU rules in perpetuity."

    So the Remainers/Brussels establishment contingent are still acting out like petulant children. This is really becoming quite tiresome.
     
  8. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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  9. dmoneybangbang

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    Japan trade deal commits UK to stricter state aid curbs than in EU talks

    EU is taking note so they can leverage UK.
     
  10. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The Internal Market Bill has passed the third reading in the House of Commons with ease. No Tories actually voted in opposition to the bill despite early reports by the Remainer supporting mass media of a "rebellion".

    Brexit: UK’s Internal Market Bill passes with ease


    The U.K.'s controversial Internal Market Bill easily cleared its final hurdle in the House of Commons on Tuesday night. It passed by 340 votes to 256, with only a small number of Tory MPs rebelling and not voting for the bill.

    In the end, not a single Conservative MP actively voted against the bill at the final stage though 21 abstained, including former Prime Minister Theresa May who had earlier said she could not support the legislation. A number of those abstentions were simply on account of absence rather than indicative of withheld support.​

    However, there were 21 abstentions, including former PM Theresa May. Now the bill goes to the House of Lords, who appear likely to engage in some effort to push back against this bill, although they do not appear to have any actual power to stop it from ultimately passing.
     
  11. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I don't even understand what that is supposed to mean.

    What says they were haunted and why does anybody care?

    It also said they paid the bill, talk about piling on.

    None of this is directed at you KC.

    Where you been?
     
  12. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

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  13. malakas

    malakas Member

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    summary of latest news:

    uk: reach a deal by this thursday or we walk away

    eu: our deal or no deal

    uk: British nation prepare for no deal but we still will continue discussions

    eu: Right..we will continue discussions but we aren't compromising

    Let's see who blinks first. Next week is supposed to be the last possible time for a deal to be reached.
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    British Prime Minister Boris Johnson makes an official speech ordering everyone in the UK to get ready to conduct trade on 'Australian terms,' which means WTO Terms. The speech itself is less than three minutes, and then he takes some questions from the press:



    Brexit architect Nigel Farage responded with a thumbs up in the following tweet, where he said "A Canada style deal was always impossible given the withdrawal agreement. Boris now reaching the right solution."



    Of course they will continue to negotiate and they could come to an agreement at any time. I still think it is more likely than not that they come to some sort of limited agreement before the end of the year, but it will be no tragedy if they do not.

    There will eventually be a trade deal between the EU and the UK. It is just a matter of when.
     
  15. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Here is basically the transcripts from PM Johnson's speech today on Brexit:

    Boris Johnson: UK must get ready for Australia-style trade deal with EU


    “They want the continued ability to control our legislative freedom, our fisheries in a way that is completely unacceptable to an independent country.

    "Since we have only 10 weeks until the end of the transition period on January 1st, I have to make judgement about the likely outcome and to get us all ready. And given that they have refused to negotiate seriously for much of the last few months and given that the summit appears explicitly to rule out a Canada-style deal, I have concluded that we should get ready for January 1st with arrangements that are more like Australia’s, based on simple principles of global free trade.

    "We can do it because we always knew that there would be change on January 1st whatever type of relationship we had. So now is the time for our busineses to get ready for our hauliers to get ready, for travellers to get ready.

    “Of course, we are willing to discuss the practicalities with our friends where a lot of progress has already been made...on such issues as social security and aviation, nuclear co-operation and so on. But for whatever reason it’s clear from the summit that after 45 years of membership, they are not willing unless there is some fundamental change of approach to offer this country the same terms as Canada and so with high hearts and complete confidence we will prepare to embrace the alternative.

    "We will prosper mightly as an independent free-trading nation, controlling our own borders, our fisheries and setting our own laws.”​
     
  16. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    That's a cute way of saying that the UK better get ready for trading on WTO terms (i.e. hard brexit). He just needs to cut it out and be honest with the people of the UK.

    In reality, the UK's best hope is if the Biden administration restarts TTIP negotiations and the UK manages to get added into it. They're never getting a trade deal on their own but if TTIP does move forward, I could see it as a vehicle for the UK to get a deal with both the EU and the US at the same time.
     
    malakas likes this.
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I had been planning a trip to Northern Ireland and Scotland this past summer before COVID-19 and still would like to go after this is over. I'm worried about my friends in Derry and Belfast.
     
  18. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Ding Dong the Witch is dead!
    LMAOOOO

    Only in a soap opera things like that happen when a prime minister's FIANCE makes the decisions.

    But I guess the snakes know first when to fall off a sinking ship when the time to pay the bills come.
     
    mdrowe00 likes this.
  19. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Cummings will very likely be back and that probably sooner rather than later.
     
  20. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Well that's it. Tomorrow is the end of the road.

    Johnson will meet with Von der Leyen for a final ditch effort to make something work.
    And it looks like there will be no deal.

    Even if a deal is reached tomorrow there is no way that it will be then ratified by either the english Parliament or the EU members.
    Thus is the gap between the two sides on standards and subsidies.

    And all this talk about fisheries which make only 0.1% of the British GDP but what about services their main export? I haven't heard anything about that.
    So basically there will be chaos.
     

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