Should citizen statue topplers be prosecuted?

There is an entire national/international discourse going on surrounding the removal of statues... that's why this thread exists...because statues are being toppled.... not only Confederate statues but all types of statues.... I'm discussing that topic.... many statues have been removed/defaced because that person was a racist... I compiled a list on page 7 I believe... I'm pointing out the three most prominent heroes of the Union were also racists. If the standard for statue removal/defacement is simply being a racist, then why shouldn't those statues be removed too? How can we venerate people who were awful racists?

 

Dude.

There is not some committee that is naming statues to be toppled, people have their own reasons to topple statues and some of the reasons are because they have nothing better to do, some of these statues are toppled because of mistaken identity and some because the person is racist.

Once again there is no standard for statue removal why do you keep ignoring that?

 

There are monuments of Washington and Jefferson being overturned...... there was one for Roosevelt as well and one for Woodrow Wilson too.

I am fairly neutral on the issue. I do not think that Confederate monuments should be in front of courthouses etc. I do not have a problem with Confederate monuments AND Union monuments at the historical battlefields, etc. Ideally we as a country would come to grips with how historically bad we have been to black people and women. Everyone knows about the Confederacy but most do not realize how terrible the most venerated men in the USA were. Virtually all of them were horrible on the institutional treatment of black people and in many cases women as well.

I am fine with the monuments remaining but there needs to stop being excuses made for many of these historical figures and an understanding that they were men that did noteworthy things but also were horrendous to virtually everyone that isn't a white male......... and contract to some of what I have heard, that goes well beyond Confederates to our most revered leaders... and that goes for both democrats and republicans.

I am reminded of what Jesse Owens said: “Hitler didn’t snub me—it was [Roosevelt] who snubbed me. The president didn’t even send me a telegram.”

Roosevelt never publicly acknowledged Owens’s triumphs—or the triumphs of any of the 18 African Americans who competed at the Berlin Olympics. Only white Olympians were invited to the White House in 1936. My point is not to say how wonderful Hitler and his Germany were to Owens because they were not. Owens said that white supremacy in Germany was rampant and really bad. The point was just how bad it was in the USA that the President of the USA did not congratulate one of the most successful Olympians in US history and did congratulate the white medalists.

 

I agree with this.

 

Keep ignoring what? I never claimed there is a statue toppling committee or some sort of official standard.

I'm trying to have a discussion on the statue toppling that is occurring. This is a big subject that is drawing lots of public interest. Lots of statues all over the world that aren't Confederate related are being attacked. If you want to participate in such a discussion, wonderful. If you don't. Don't.

The pertinent question is where do we draw the line with regards to historical figures and their statues? It's pretty simple to say we should get rid of Confederate statues. Confederate statues are coming down and they will all be gone (except for maybe Stone Mountain, GA) within the next 10-15 years, if not earlier.

The question then becomes who else gets their statue removed and why? We have seen many non-confederate statues removed/vandalized across the globe recently.

Who gets to stay and who has to go and why? If simply being a racist gets you tossed I would point out that historical figures such as Union heroes who you would think would be "safe" from removal were themselves terrible racists.

The heroes of the Union were literally white supremacists. We have statues venerating them. Should we remove those statues? It's a fair question. How can you support keeping a statue of a guy who said "XXXX."

 

No one knows the answer to this... society will decide where the line is drawn.

 

Keep ignoring the fact that there is no established rule on what statues should stay.

I all ready told you where I would draw the line and I told you what I thought of the other statues being removed.

Go back and read.

 

No rule on which statue should stay is a big problem because slippery slope goes a lot of places ~

 

This is a radical opinion and not an electorally winning one and not a popular one, in any way, but I'm in support of that slippery slope. I love Lincoln and he did a lot to end slavery but he also felt Black people should leave America and form their own nation. I'd be in favor of maintaining his monument on the balance that he did much more good than bad.

Very few people we were taught to look up to while studying American history are worthy of celebration. This country was built on genocide and slavery, as you well know and everybody knows. Nobody had an issue with Columbus when I was taught he was a hero. Nobody did.

Someone posted a comment or thread a while back that asked "who is the smartest racist you can think of" or something like that. I failed to reply but, off the top of my head, my answer was Thomas Jefferson, a slave owner and slave raper.

Nobody has to agree with me and I don't expect anyone will. Like I said, it's a radical opinion.

A less radical one, which I believe in much more strongly, is massive reparations. But I guess that's for another thread.

 

What if you lean the statue on its side?

 

This is another issue that is being decided by the loudest voices. I agree many of these statues should go but it should be done through democratic means rather than who shows up at a protest with rope and a crowbar.

 

I don't think abolishing statues will solve anything. They are eyesores or figureheads depending n how you swing.

The real issue is having an accurate account of history that includes different viewpoints rather than some Disneyfied Grim Fairy tales of legendary Princesses Fathers who dabbled with frontier taming/rebellion by day and became Philosopher Kings by night.

 

U.S. Marshals getting involved in anticipation of the July 4 holiday

https://theweek.com/speedreads/921984/report-marshals-told-prepare-help-protect-national-monuments

 

That is not how it works when people reach a certain point...... same with rioting and looting...... it is just proven to be human nature. Change often times is like a forest fire flare up.

Eventually people will have enough and it will stop.. for awhile.

 

This is the one they need to protect......... Stone Mountain Park in Georgia.

The biggest tourist attraction in the South and likely one of the most beautiful places in the South.

a LOT of people are calling for this to be sand blasted off the mountain.

I have very mixed feelings about it....... but the history surrounding it does it ZERO favors.

 

Except we’re finding out that a lot of the rioting is actually being done by outside groups and agitators. This isn’t some organic growth but something that is being planned.

In the case if topping statue it takes forethought to show up at a protest with the tools to topple a statue.

 

Outside groups and agitators have usually played a part...... they certainly did in Germany and Russia and other areas around the world.

If the US people were really that outraged over it, it would not be currently happening because of the people putting pressure on elected officials.

There will come a point where enough is enough....... but this has been going on for a month.

 

As a black service member, I find our nation’s desire to venerate the confederacy disgusting and pathetic. The Confederacy was formed with the express purpose of tearing the country in half. Jefferson Davis, “Stonewall” Jackson, Robert E. Lee, etc were all traitors to our nation. The fact that we have military bases and public statues in their “honor” is revolting. They have no honor. They are simply 1800s versions of Benedict Arnold.

 

woke dumbass rioters about to find out defacing a monument on federal land is a federal offense punishable by 10 years in prison

Barr said he has people reviewing video of all of this vandalism.

 

Good.