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Antifa as a terrorist organization and Ur-Fascism

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ubiquitin, May 31, 2020.

  1. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    With the Justice Department declaring 'Antifa' a terrorist organization, it's basically open season on individuals who protest against this administration and systemic issues like racism and police brutality.

    Antifa can best be described as a loosely affiliated group of anarchist and accelerationist provocateurs who commit violence to change policy and target similar right wing provocateurs. They are more a Fox News created boogey man than some shadow group responsible for every act of looting.

    But this also leads to asking what fascism even is. Most people should be familiar with historical fascist parties in Germany and Italy. Fewer in Spain and Argentina.

    In 1995, Umberto Eco created the definition below which feels eerily similar to right now.

    Was Sinclair Lewis wrong when he said It Can't Happen Here? America First has been coopted for fascist ideologies before, notably when Charles Lindbergh famously claimed the "British, the Jewish and the Roosevelt administration" were pushing the country into war with the Germany in September 1941, three months before the surprise attack by Japan on Pearl Harbor.

    Elections have consequences. If you want to start to reverse these trends, YOU need to support politicians who are committed to liberal democracy and the rule of law. Steer clear of the populist tides of reaction and revolution.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Umberto_Eco

    He argues that it is not possible to organise these into a coherent system, but that "it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it". He uses the term "Ur-fascism" as a generic description of different historical forms of fascism. The fourteen properties are as follows:

    • "The Cult of Tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by Tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement.
    • "The Rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system.
    • "The Cult of Action for Action's Sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself, and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.
    • "Disagreement Is Treason" – Fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith.
    • "Fear of Difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants.
    • "Appeal to a Frustrated Middle Class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.
    • "Obsession with a Plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society (such as the German elite's 'fear' of the 1930s Jewish populace's businesses and well-doings; see also anti-Semitism). Eco also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession.
    • Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak." On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will.
    • "Pacifism is Trafficking with the Enemy" because "Life is Permanent Warfare" – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to not build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war.
    • "Contempt for the Weak", which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate Leader who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force.
    • "Everybody is Educated to Become a Hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death."
    • "Machismo", which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold "both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality."
    • "Selective Populism" – The People, conceived monolithically, have a Common Will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the Leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of "no longer represent[ing] the Voice of the People."
    • "Newspeak" – Fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.
     
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  2. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    It’s impossible for a peaceful demonstrations now
    There’s a criminal element who’s exploiting this for looting

    https://www.tmz.com/2020/05/31/sant...m-peaceful-to-chaotic-looting-curfew-daytime/

    One store, REI, was being guarded by a peaceful protester who attempted to stand in the way of the entrance door -- and was physically accosted by people trying to break in. FOX 11 captured some of the craziness she had to endure to protect the camping door retailer.
     
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  3. The Real Shady

    The Real Shady Contributing Member

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    Beautiful video of undercover cop taking back an AR-15 that a young punk Antifa pissant take from a burning cop car. Honestly they should just shoot some of these kids so they all run back home to mommy.

     
    #3 The Real Shady, May 31, 2020
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    Is there a credible source that the guy with the AR affiliates with Antifa? Is there a source that the person who removed it was an undercover cop and not a security guard for a news crew or something else? Just asking.
     
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  5. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    I am sure there a people on the fringe of both spectrums that are contributing to these riots. It would be silly to think otherwise.
     
  6. generalthade_03

    generalthade_03 Contributing Member

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    This is my city man, it has been like this for awhile now, thanks to the Dems who are in charge.
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    How do they know who is antifa and who is not?

    I thought it's unconstitutional to label domestic groups terrorists?
     
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  8. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Yes, Seattle is famous for its beautiful forests, sky line, culture, coffee, music errr... I mean riots and burned out police cars.
     
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  9. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    What a stupid idea. That is incredibly unhelpful and makes no sense. The root of the unrest is the inappropriate use of force by authorities. Anything as unhelpful as what you posted would only cause more unrest and people would be justified in their outrage.
     
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  10. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Yet the Klan still roams free

    Rocket River
     
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  11. generalthade_03

    generalthade_03 Contributing Member

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    Not sure what you meant, but here you go. I live here dude
     
  12. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I’ve called it for days. You guys realize what power that gives Trump potentially to do don’t you?

    Under the patriot act expansion powers, Trump has the power to do a lot of damage to this country. Just go look at what Erdogan did with similar legal powers that he weaponized to his rise as an autocrat thug. If you think Trump isn’t going there next you don’t know Trump very well.
     
  13. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    By Donnie O'Sullivan, CNN Business
    Updated 12:25 AM ET, Tue June 2, 2020


    White supremacists pose as Antifa online, call for violence
    New York (CNN Business) A Twitter account that tweeted a call to violence and claimed to be representing the position of "Antifa" was in fact created by a known white supremacist group, Twitter said Monday. The company removed the account.

    "This account violated our platform manipulation and spam policy, specifically the creation of fake accounts," a Twitter spokesperson said in a statement. "We took action after the account sent a Tweet inciting violence and broke the Twitter Rules."
    Although the account only had a few hundred followers, it is an example of white supremacists seeking to inflame tensions in the United States by posing as left-wing activists online.

    The revelation of the account comes as President Donald Trump increasingly blames left-wing activists for violence occurring at protests across America
    .
    On Sunday, Trump tweeted he would designate Antifa a terrorist organization, despite the US government having no existing legal authority to do so. Antifa, short for anti-fascists, describes a broad, loosely-organized group of people whose political beliefs lean toward the left — often the far-left — but do not conform with the Democratic Party platform.

    Antifa positions can be hard to define, but many people espousing those beliefs support oppressed populations and protest the amassing of wealth by corporations and elites. Some employ radical or militant tactics to get out their messages.

    The fake account, @ANTIFA_US, tweeted Sunday, "ALERT Tonight's the night, Comrades Tonight we say "F**k The City" and we move into the residential areas... the white hoods.... and we take what's ours #BlacklivesMaters #F**kAmerica."
    Twitter said that the account was in fact linked to Identity Evropa, a white power fraternity.

    Though Twitter referred to the group as Identity Evropa when discussing the account's removal, the Anti Defamation League (ADL) states that the group dissolved and reformed under the name the American Identitarian Movement, which it also calls a white supremacist group.

    The group promotes itself as "identitarian," that white people should preserve their racial and cultural identity. The American Identitarian Movement says it prohibits violence and illegal activity.

    CNN has reached out to the group for comment.

    Twitter said it had shut down other fake accounts linked to Identity Evropa, too.
    The phenomenon of people on the right creating fake Antifa accounts predates the current wave of protests. The takedown Monday is not the first time a fake Antifa account linked to white supremacists has been suspended by Twitter, the spokesperson confirmed.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/tech/antifa-fake-twitter-account/index.html
     
    #13 Deckard, Jun 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    https://www.axios.com/twitter-suspe...sts-b387f109-2bfd-4326-a60f-a4d398a191c3.html

    https://www.gq.com/story/fake-antifa-accounts

    https://qz.com/1839337/new-evidence-links-civil-war-reenactor-to-fake-antifa-threats/

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/tech/antifa-fake-twitter-account/index.html



    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...-hundreds-of-conservatives-to-hold-a-rally-to

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-white-supremacist-group-urging-violence.html

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xwv4q4/how-the-right-made-antifa-into-the-boogeyman

    https://www.salon.com/2017/09/11/6-examples-of-fake-news-about-antifa_partner/

    ^^ This is why I don't trust claims of Antifa when none of these people's backgrounds are investigated and only right wing leaning people jump to conclusions that these people are leftist Antifa people.
     
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  15. The Real Shady

    The Real Shady Contributing Member

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    People are going to believe whatever they want to believe as long as it fits their narrative. CNN will go on the offensive to protect Antifa since they have been blamed by Donald Trump to make him look bad.

    But just how big are white supremacist groups and the KKK these days? How intelligent and well funded are they to fly young kids out to pose as Antifa in the ultimate conspiracy to make them look bad. These are young kids seen causing destruction. It's not cool to be in the KKK anymore (not ever), but it's now cool to be a young Antifa anarchist.

    I would say that there are likely some young white supremacist, but there are far more Antifa out there causing some of the destruction. It fits their ideology. Now a big shoot up of peaceful protesters would be more of a white supremacist move, and wouldn't be shocked if we see it.

     
  16. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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    https://www.splcenter.org/news/2020/03/18/year-hate-and-extremism-2019

     
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  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The morbid beauty of these type of provcacator actions is it doesn't require much brain power and money. The reason why it's so easy is that all you have to do is wear all black, throw some bricks through some windows and have someone record it and the right wing media without any semblance of intellectual curiosity out of principle will just automatically declare "Antifa".

    And the way the human mind and social media works is as long as you can upload 6 to 10 examples of these incidents, the right wing networks of YouTube channels, websites, Fox News, OANN, Twitter and Facebook accounts will spam it endlessly to the point where those people will believe it's 20x more prevelant than it is.
     
    #17 fchowd0311, Jun 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
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  18. The Real Shady

    The Real Shady Contributing Member

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    What's happening fits their ideology though. If white supremacist's are out there dressed in black causing destruction to bring down the system they are probably happy with the assistance.
     
  19. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    fox news is on top of this...

     
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  20. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    This is like trying to formally declare war on the Jocks on Headbangers in high school.

    Downright terrifying what we are hearing from the Right.
     
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