How good would would Harden and Rockets be if he had the mentality and leadership of MJ?

Plenty of players have achieved greatness without being irredeemable and unrepentant assholes like Jordan.

In fact we had two of them here in Houston, Hakeem and Clyde.

Kids, don't be like Mike.

 

MJ nut riding is getting out of hand...MJ’s “leadership” and “tenacity” wouldn’t have won a damn thing without Pippen, Phil, and the rest of the role players who did their job to perfection

same with Kobe’s “mamba mentality”...RIP

Kobe wasn’t doing sh*t without Shaq, Horry, Fox, and the crew or Pau, Odom, Bynum, etc coached by Phil

lazy, fat, selfish, pregnant with twins Harden was about to beat one of the most stacked teams of all time and get a title with a 33 yo CP3...

 

MJ was a selfish and uber-greedy player. i'm not saying that's necessarily bad when it comes to winning titles, as kobe was too. but if harden was such a player then we also couldn't expect him to be a league leader in assists, for instance. there would be such tradeoffs for sure. personally, i'm not sure what i'd prefer as a rockets fan, but i just accept harden as is w/ the greatness as well as the 'flaws'

 

Harden had a championship caliber team one time since he’s been in Houston, and guess what, he would’ve delivered a title to the city of Houston if his co-star did not go down

he is not running around with some of the most talented rosters in the NBA year in and year out like MJ, Bron, and Kobe

give Harden Klay, Draymond, and Iggy, and he would have 3 titles and 3 FMVP, so stop it...

Kawhi got so much praise for what he did last year, but his team was also stacked...Siakam and Lowry are both All-Stars...Gasol is a former All-Star and DPOY...Van Vleet and Ibaka are very good

they were on pace for almost 60 wins this season without him, and had an amazing record last season without him

these stars always have much better rosters than Harden

 

I think with Harden there is a clear attribute he lacks that the Mt. Rushmore of backcourt players (Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, Wade) had and that's in game stamina and conditioning.

Those guys I listed went into every game knowing that they could out condition and out sprint everyone on the court after 34+ minutes of being winded. They'll still have the reserves to still have bursts of energy in the fourth quarter. You'll see them sprint and do a chase down block and then sprint the other way for a dunk well into the 4th when everyone else is breathing hard. Those guys had some of the best in game conditioning the game has ever seen. When you see guys like Kobe and Jordan doing suicide drills at practice with their team you always see those two being the one leading the drills where none of their teammates can keep up.

Harden just doesn't have that attribute. I know he plays every game but that's durability which is different from conditioning and lung capacity. Harden is VERY durable but he isn't conditioned the most. Guys like Jordan, Kobe and Curry can run all day off ball just making the opponent guards get winded chasing them around.

 

at the end of the day, give Harden a championship caliber roster, and he is more than capable of delivering a title...every player has flaws

he has had a championship caliber team one time...they won 65 games and would’ve likely beaten 1 of the most stacked teams ever...they for sure would’ve demolished Lebron’s Cavs

the problem isn’t Harden...the problem is we give him mediocre rosters and expect titles

the Bulls had an amazing roster...Lakers had an amazing roster...Lebron has amazing rosters...Kawhi has amazing rosters...Steph is stacked

Harden usually has what in comparison?

All these stars get the finest and freshest of ingredients to cook with, while Harden is expected to make magnificent meals with somebody’s 2 day old leftovers as ingredients

 

Good point. Let's not forget how Kobe and Jordan did in the playoffs when they had mediocre rosters: First round exits. (Kobe even memorably quit and stopped shooting in a game 7 first round loss to the Suns.)

LeBron usually seemed able to elevate bad teams to at least the second round. But that was in the East, so I guess take that with a grain of salt.

 

I think prime LeBron and Jordan would have won in 2018 with the Rockets roster minus Harden. Again, they have that otherworldly conditioning where they still are upright, not huffing and puffing and can sprint all day in those closing minutes of a intense playoff game while Harden tends to get sluggish and walk around. Old man CP3 had that element to him in 2018. Notice who did all the clutch play in game 5.

2018 CP3 was as good as Pippen ever was in terms of importance and leadership on the team. I know I always rag in Harden but I just think he is in the tier right below Jordan, LeBron and Kobe. He's still a top 10 scorer of all time.

 

Bolded = /thread.

Doesn't make sense when people deride Harden for his lack of accomplishments but fail to state the differences between the rosters that won titles.

Comparisons to Kobe? Dwight and McHale are not Shaq and Phil.

Jordan? Westbrook / CP3 and MDA are not Pippen and Phil.

Curry? Rockets' 4 others are not Durant / Klay / Draymond / Iggy.

Harden clearly isn't in the conversation for GOAT, but constantly putting him down because he hasn't "made it" yet, is disingenuous at best.

 

2018 CP3 was better than Laker's Pau Gasol. Kobe won 2 rings without a superstar teammate. Pau Gasol was an all-star caliber player at the time. He wasn't a top 10 player like 2018 CP3 was.

 

Curry won a ring with a first year coach and zero other superstars on his team. He had all-star caliber teammates in Klay and Draymond (barely).

 

Kobe was not facing the Warriors. None of his competition even compares to them.

 

team was still stacked and had a bunch of excellent role players

he also faced the Cavs without Kyrie and Kevin Love

 

2018 and 2019 are years where I wouldn't blame Harden for because of the KD overstaked Warriors. But let's not forget in 2018, Harden's playoff averages were pretty bad in terms of efficiency. CP3 was the leader of that playoff run. Harden led teams when they are getting tired tend to just jack up threes. CP,3 would have controlled that bad habit in games 6 and 7 if he played.

However Harden has faced the KDless Warriors in two series, one with Curry missing a couple of games and still lost. He also lost to a Spurs team without their best player and it was obvious it was from his poor play and lack of leadership why they lost.

 

Do you think that Curry team in 2015 would succeed if Harden replaced Curry? I don't think so. I don't think Harden's talents translate well to Kerr's offensive system.

 

How good would Matt Maloney be if he had Jordan’s drive?

 

Probably an all-star.

 

ya he had all the tools to be a legend. All star like Jeremy Lin?

 

All-star. Not legend lol