25 year old man murdered in Georgia for jogging while black

LOL "prowling" you use words to make it criminal

did the owner lose anything and was sure Arbery robbed it and he complained or filed a charge on Arbery?

yes or no were there charges filed on arbery for looking at the construction site?

 

Even accepting that what Arbery was doing was dodgy. Even accepting that Arbery was burglarizing the neighborhood that still doesn't justify the McMichaels going after them. We need to keep on repeating this that GA Law doesn't justify a civilian to detain someone unless they actually witness the crime.

Laws like this aren't for the safety of the criminals but are more for the safety of civilians. Let's say everything about Arbery is true and he is dangerous hardened criminal. That is more reason to leave it to the authorities to apprehend them. Trying to take down a dangerous criminal is always a risky proposition. Civilians doing this not only put themselves at risk but also make it harder for LE if they have to end up rescuing a civilian who has decided to take the law into their own hand.

Some people also talk about it as a sign of weakness just waiting for the police. That real men take things into their own hand. If anything thinking you have to take the law into your hand and get your gun and deputize yourself is a sign of weakness. It shows that you don't have the patience or discipline to control yourself. It leads to exactly these type of situations where someone gets hurt or killed.

This doesn't mean we don't do anything. As I said there is nothing wrong with calling the police and giving them as much info as you can get about the suspect. It also doesn't mean you don't act when your life or the life of others is threatened but as we frequently say most of self-defense is how not to get into a situation where you have to fight.

 

How so? It's the crux of the issue. The daylight surveillance video shows him not stealing anything. It shows him in the house for 3 or so minutes. He didn't threaten anyone. He was apparently leaving the neighborhood. He wasn't armed. It was broad daylight in the early afternoon.

If there are suspicions, then let the police handle it. If you simply want to ask him questions as the guys apparently said in their 2 month old statements, why bring along guns.?

 

Can't keep up with this thread -- is it just @dachuda keeping it alive with contrarian arguments?

My response in general as I understand the case so far:
1. A citizen's arrest is justified in Georgia if you have immediate personal knowledge of a felony crime being committed. Trespassing on a construction site isn't a felony. No burglary was committed. Past burglaries or recognizing someone from video isn't immediate personal knowledge. So there is no lawful citizen's arrest here.

2. Two armed men who block your path with their truck and want to "ask you questions" is pretty aggressive. With Georgia's Stand Your Ground law, Arbery might be justified in using violence to defend himself from what a reasonable person would consider a threat. He doesn't have to wait for someone to attack him first before he defends himself.

3. Stand Your Ground is not intended to protect the aggressor. Given that these two men intended to do a "citizen's arrest" that was actually unlawful because they didn't have immediate knowledge of a felony being committed, they were actually intending something like a kidnapping, assault, or terroristic threat. Stand Your Ground should not apply to them.

4. It could be the gun went off accidentally in the tussle. However, if they were engaged in a crime (assault by threatening someone with a gun) and bad things happened, the law tends to make you culpable for the bad things that culminate from your criminal actions.

 

That's a loaded explanation

 

Where did you get this information? Because as far as I can tell from the news articles, there is only one video of Arbery doing anything close to illegal, and that's the one where he enters the construction site a few minutes before the confrontation and his death.

In the 911 call, the caller does mention Arbery's been seen on other videos, but so far there's been no evidence of that. Nor have there been any reported break-ins since the beginning of the year in that neighborhood, besides something about a stolen gun from the truck of the shooter.

Unless Arbery's having gone into the construction site without permission should alone make him a criminal suspect, there was nothing dodgy about his behavior IMO.

 

I was being sarcastic lol

 

I'm actually so tired of these ****ing idiots playing cops because they own a few guns. It's so damn reckless.

Let's just say if Arbery was an armed criminal and decided to start a shootout because he felt threatened by these two. is it really worth it, a random kid in the neighborhood could have been caught by a stray bullet.

What if Arbery actually wrestled the gun away from them and shot them both.

So many thing could to go wrong when you bring deadly weapons into the conversation when it's absolutely not a life and death situation.

There's no situation where these two ****heads should have stalked someone out with their guns armed to their teeth. Literally nothing has happened that would have justified all that.

 

People with small penises load up with guns and dream of the day they can finally use one in action. I believe that’s in the Old Testament. Something about testicular fortitude.

 

Good news you'll never heard about a black person being shot in San Leon.

 

Is it just me or is the handling of the case by the prosecutors and the fact that had A) he been white or had the men been black and/or B) that video never had been leaked then these guys would still be under their own roof with no potential for justice to be done and these prosecutors could have potentially became a high authority judge, a senator or hell even been in the White House one day in our future? While everyone wants to talk about race, and there’s not a shadow of doubt in my mind these men are racists who would never had done what they did had he been white, it’s ridiculous to me no one wants to talk about the REAL issue: once again the system failed and most of the people running this country are disgusting people on a crazy quest for power.

And before you condemn (you rightfully should though) the two prosecutors who didn’t arrest them keep in mind this guy was a detective...would anyone here bet against that detective knowing some good dirt on these men? In a system where prosecutors are so caught up in their W-L record does anyone here TRULY believe this is the first time they’ve suppressed evidence and/or didn’t “do the right thing”?

And the saddening part? These are the type of guys that run our country...you know, all of the politicians that people love to debate over blindly and don’t look into the big picture. News flash...you don’t go to a top college for law school and pay that kind of money without having crazy high career goals, ones that you will likely do anything it takes for, and then go accept a position making less than six figures like these prosecutors make unless because “you like to help people”. Amazing how Bush and Obama are both worth $40M and Clinton around $80M...I’m sure they “played it straight” their entire careers though and would have never done unspeakable things like these two prosecutors did. GTFO with that nonsense.

Edit: Last thing I’ll add. If the public’s election of Trump wasn’t an outcry for help and the people standing up against the broken system, I don’t know what is. It’s absolutely dumbfounding how people can sit there and argue that “Trump isn’t fit to be a president, look at his Tweets, he’s a bad person, etc.” but go out and argue that Joe Biden IS...I guess they just believe all those sexual allegations and him being creepy AF (or better yet using his power and getting his) are simply women making things up. All of those Bill Clinton allegations must have been false too. I personally didn’t vote during the last election as I wasn’t a fan of either of them, but given this insane level of hypocrisy by the Democratic Party, it’s enough to make me go vote Trump and hope that maybe this time they will get the f***** message and stop backing these disgusting people.

 

That is in fact what you are arguing. Whatever he was doing at the construction site doesn't matter.

You don't have the ability to confront anyone suspicious looking with a roadblock and guns. You do not have that right. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

 

This reminds me of a George Carlin bit

 

drain the swamp!

 

"Makin' their way the only way they know how, that's juss a little bit more than the law will allow...." Good Ol' Boys

 

Lol realistically I won’t vote unless they move off from Biden and it isn’t Sanders either. I would 100% vote for Michelle Obama with the presumption Barry O would be calling the shots...really wish they would consider that idea. It would be a lock as they’d get all the me too and minority votes while retaining the hardcore/old vote who will vote for whoever they throw out there regardless. IMO Biden’s chances are out the window now. Yeah, Trump has had tons of accusations himself, and while he’s denied those, him and his base don’t give a crap so it’s not the same. Plus they bashed Kavanaugh for a similar accusation and there’s no chance IMO he wins the younger voters over now like Bernie did.

 

Haha sadly he may be right in the regard that it’s the best that we can do, and I get it’s a comedy bit, but my issue is the fact that almost all of them have a law degree, most of which are a top school that costs hundreds of thousands to get in and/or connections so he’s a bit off when he makes the joke they’re “just normal people” coming from normal backgrounds.

I’m too lazy to look up the data but I would bet the majority of them were former prosecutors at some point. Want to know why Joe Biden is now a presidential candidate? He didn’t want to be a defense attorney, didn’t enjoy corporate law after giving that a go, and most importantly he didn’t want to be paid like crap after going to law school and dropping all that money. For those who don’t have affluent parents it makes going the political route tough and that alone is the issue: the people in our government are not a true representation of the American people.

Before anyone blasts me I understand what I’m about to say is tough to near impossible to do...but in a perfect world I would love to somehow increase the presence of other types of people other than those who were fortunate and didn’t have to worry about $200K in debt after law school. And while I understand the importance of a law degree to be a politician, I think giving out more full law scholarships with the stipulation that you must be a prosecutor and/or be a political advocate for X years after leaving law school or be forced to pay it all back would at least be a start. I would be for increasing pay for both as well, especially if you come from a background where daddy didn’t have $200K under his mattress to pay for your degree.

 

A lot of people say we should take race out of issues and we shouldn't focus on the race of the victim or of the perpetrators. If we do it doesn't make it any better for McMichaels. If Arbery was white or the McMichaels black or they all were Asian it doesn't change that there was no legal basis for the McMichaels to try to detain or apprehend Arbery. Arbery has a right to defend himself and has no duty to retreat or surrender under GA law.

 

yeah Trump is less corrupt than Biden the US is better off with Trump