1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

JVG might replace MDA as Rockets coach?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaBeard, May 5, 2020.

  1. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Messages:
    13,400
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    I already posted his career averages in my response to you. He’s wasn’t pulling a Harden.
     
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,947
    Likes Received:
    36,506
    Did it decline in the playoffs, overall?
     
  3. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,870
    Likes Received:
    43,283
    I think I like the fact that the postseason isn't just about scoring.

    Lebron with the chasing block, players with clutch steals, clutch D and so on.

    JH is getting there, his post D is getting better. See Allstar Game 4th Q.

    If only he could further improve on perimeter D and off the ball movements...you have to become fundamentally sound on the defensive side as well, at least more versatile.
     
  4. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,027
    Likes Received:
    12,019
    I mean....the last two games of the Warriors series that we lost in 2019 Harden scored a combined 66 points on 65% TS and 62% eFG.

    That’s BETTER than his regular season efficiency.

    Let not misremember things. Harden came to play those last two games and we lost. He didn’t wilt.

    And Jesus jumped up Christ. A rockets fans characterization of James Harden is he’s only really great at scoring and not at any other aspect of basketball.

    Not the best way to prop up your credibility as an evaluator.
     
    Richie_Rich, D-rock and SamFisher like this.
  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,804
    Likes Received:
    36,710
    I've stated multiple times that the 2019 series against the Warriors is the one series where Harden stepped up and rose above his regular season performance. It was clearly his best series ever averaging nearly 35 ppg. That is the one series where you cannot blame Harden.
     
  6. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Messages:
    13,400
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Nope. 25, 5.2, 4.7 in the regular season and 25.6, 5.1, 4.7 in the playoffs. Shooting %’s covered in my previous response.
     
  7. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Messages:
    13,400
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Nope. 25, 5.2, 4.7 in the regular season and 25.6, 5.1, 4.7 in the playoffs. Shooting %’s covered in my previous response.
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,947
    Likes Received:
    36,506
    True shooting percentage, now you see it, now you don't! :D

    As you well know, and are desperately trying to avoid mentioning, the efficiency of nearly every star player drops off from the playoffs into the regular season, on average, this is as true for pretty much all of them. LeBron, Kobe, Jordan whomever.

    There's a few outliers, of course. But on average, it stands for the rather unremarkable proposition that it's easier to be more efficient against bad teams than good teams. This isn't even argument so much as a postulate. But, it hurts your narrative so just go ahead and keep banging the same shitty drum.
     
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,804
    Likes Received:
    36,710
    Harden's TS% drops off 4 percentage points between the regular season and playoffs as a Rocket.

    Kobe's drops off .9 percentage points.

    Also, you can't compare true shooting percentage between Kobe and Harden so simply because of different eras of basketball. During Kobe's prime the league average TS% was about 4 percentage points lower than it is today.
     
  10. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Messages:
    13,400
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    In those playoffs Harden had 57% TS and 50% eFG. In that series he had 59% TS and 53% eFG. Neither are better than his regular season efficiency.

    Agreed.

    He’s not a great rebounder, passer (see his assist to turnovers) or defender. He is one of the best and most efficient scorers we have seen...in the regular season.
     
  11. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Messages:
    13,400
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    False. I posted his TS% in my previous response to you. In the 5 years he won titles, it went up 2 years, down 2 years and stayed the same another year. 55% in the regular season and 54.1% in the playoffs for his career, also in my previous response. Kobe was his standard self. If you want to try to make that a comparable from going from 61% (historically elite) to 58%, knock yourself out. We all need laughs these days.
     
  12. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,027
    Likes Received:
    12,019
    Well the thing is. Earlier You cited the portion of the series after Durant went down where Harden didn’t deliver as a check mark in the Harden didn’t show up column. That’s not accurate. He was a beast in game 5&6.

    In what way is he not a great rebounder for a SG? Since joining Houston only Westbrook has more rebounds than Harden at the guard position.

    And you have got to be kidding me? Assist to turnover ratio tells you jack **** about how a player in the Harden mold is as a passer. His sole job wasn’t to just set up teammates. His usage percentage/time of possession is higher than just about any player ever. It’s just not going to work as an indicator like it did for your average PG from the 90s whose job was totally different. During his time in Houston he has been a top 5 passer in the league without question.

    Uh yeah his defense over his entire Houston career... would be generous to say it was average.

    Just seems like you are letting your personal feeling for the player negatively skew how you judge him.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  13. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Messages:
    13,400
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Here are the threads from G5 and G6. Harden beasting was def the minority opinion.

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php...iors-5-8-2019-playoffs-round-2-game-5.298550/

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php...ets-5-10-2019-playoffs-round-2-game-6.298630/

    I'll concede the rebounding. I stand corrected.

    No he hasn't. His numbers there are volume based, just like Westbrook.

    I'm just speaking the truth. Harden is what he is. He's superman in the regular season and he isn't in the playoffs. If he maintained the same level of play or upped his game then he likely has a title by now.
     
    #213 Icehouse, May 11, 2020
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
  14. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    45,861
    Likes Received:
    127,887
    because Kobe’s TS% wasn’t astronomically high to begin with

    let’s look at Kevin Duran’t TS% in the years he made the playoffs while in OKC...

    During those 6 seasons, KD’s TS% in the regular season was 62%? His TS% in the playoffs? 57.5%. That’s a drop of 4.5%. I didn’t see anyone trashing KD for that like they do with Harden tho...

    Steph’s regular season TS% in the years he’s made the playoffs - 63.5%

    In the playoffs, that drops down to 60.9%. That’s a decrease of 2.6%. While it’s still elite, 2.6% is still a noticeable drop, and that’s with his FTR increasing significantly in some years such as in 16-17 and 18-19 where his FTR increased by about 11 and 15% respectively from the regular season. Something that rarely happens with Harden who’s FTR dipped by about 10 and 14% the past 2 years.

    Harden’s TS% dips from 61.1% during the regular season in Houston to 56.9% in the playoffs. A decrease of 4.2%.

    Let’s look at Kobe’s difference between the regular season and playoffs in years he made the playoffs, and I’ll start with the 98-99 season since that was the 1st year he averaged around 20 ppg and averaged at least 15 shots a game. In the regular season, his TS was at 55.3%, and it dropped to 54.1% in the postseason. That’s a drop of 1.2%.

    What do u consider Kobe’s prime? If we look at 05-06 and onwards, there was 1 year (the lockout year) where average TS% was at 52.7, but every other year it was between from 53.4 to 54.5%. The league average TS% from 12-13 (Kobe’s last year good year) to now has been between a low of 53.4% in 14-15 to a high of 56.4% this past season. It looks like league average TS% was only around 1-2% lower during Kobe’s prime than it is today, and not 4.

    Harden’s Houston career average playoff TS% is above the highest recorded regular season average TS%. It is certainly above the playoff average TS. Harden’s TS% in comparison to his peers is higher than Kobe in comparison to his.
     
    Richie_Rich and D-rock like this.
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,804
    Likes Received:
    36,710
    I can't find league average playoff TS%. I think a flaw in your post is that you are using league average TS% that only incorporate the regular season. I actually would like to find league playoff average ts% by year.
     
  16. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    45,861
    Likes Received:
    127,887
    I am not able to find that either, nor do I have the time to try and calculate it.

    Where did the 4% come from?

    Is it not safe to assume that Harden’s playoff Houston career average of 56.9% TS would not be solidly above the league playoff average?

    KD’s efficiency dipped even more than Harden’s when he was in OKC, and KD is the one who’s 7 ft tall with the elite, unblockable shot. What was his excuse, and why did he not deserve the same amount of heat Harden gets back when he was with OKC? KD only became this godly playoff performer after he joined stacked GS.

    How many stars other than an MJ, Bron, or more recently Kawhi maintain or even exceed their regular season performance on a routine basis come playoff time? For Harden to maintain his regular season performance in the playoffs, he would basically have to be damn near MJ level, because that is how good he is offensively in the regular season. Maintaining for Harden is now 35 ppg on 60% TS or higher. When people say that Harden should at least maintain his regular season averages, that is what they are asking. His career regular season average in Houston is 30, 6, and 7 on 61% TS. To maintain that for his playoff career is to be like a top 5 or top 10 playoff performer in NBA history.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  17. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2000
    Messages:
    13,400
    Likes Received:
    3,744
    Durant caught plenty of heat after blowing that 3-1 lead, and still doesn't get full credit for what he did in GS.

    Steph doesn't catch heat because he has 3 titles.
     
  18. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,740
    Likes Received:
    5,651
    god i could see tillman hiring thibs to "get hard on harden"
     
  19. Imanimal

    Imanimal Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    Messages:
    2,712
    Likes Received:
    3,295
    Relax, Thibs not in consideration. JVG if Morey has say, but hearing Matt Brase is going to get serious consideration. Team likes him; is easy on the budget; and they feel has similar upside as Nick Norse.
     
    kjayp likes this.
  20. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,228
    And yet you still blame Harden.

    Just admit you are a butch when it comes to Harden chowd.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now