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[Official] Joe 2020

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by justtxyank, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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  2. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    I did the same with my grandmother for over a decade .... dementia is such a terrible "disease". Sometimes they don't know who you - the care giver are ... others they bring up silly little things that happened 40 years ago and act like it happened 3 minutes ago.
    My grandmother , the last 4-5 years wouldn't let anyone but me near her.


    I doubt Biden is showing signs of dementia .... he's just not as sharp as he once was , we all decline mentally and dementia isn't necessarily part of that natural decline.


    Either way , I prefer a Biden to either Bernie or Trump , both of whom to me are just different types of bad.
     
  3. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    My grandfather had early stages of dementia when I started taking care of him, he had early dementia for over 5 years. It was mostly fine, just repetition, general confusion, forgetfulness of words and objects, until it significantly progressed within a 1 year window at the end of his life, that's when he was forgetting people, where he was, when he ate etc.

    So I could personally see how Biden or Trump could have early dementia, it's pretty subtle but shows at times within speech, but I'm not going to assume that or make that claim for either, it needs to be accessed by a doctor.
     
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  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Agreed, not very presidential and quite threatening.
     
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  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    While I think its is useful see what type of people Biden might attract into a possible cabinet and I think the topic merits serious discussion, I also hope that the group will not create confusion and disagreements since the pence-led team is the official U.S. voice and policy.

     
  6. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    Well, since you BOLDED the critical information, you've convinced me. Your president, by the way, is guilty of ACTUAL corruption and ACTUAL perversion.
     
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  7. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    Nope , he's threatening to ruin us financially and say the hell with any and all personal responsibility - Gubmint's gonna save the day.

    Had Bernie won the nomination , I'd have voted for Trump - No doubt about it.

    "Its the economy stupid" ...

    That is why Bernie was the only candidate I wouldn't have voted for over Trump.

    Sure we need some tweaks to the system , but we don't need a complete overhaul to change the foundation of our economy.
     
  8. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    I actually think a lot of things are fundamentally problematic and I think there are major changes needed in the economy. But I'm not convinced Bernie would be the guy to actually get any of that done.

    To use historical examples, Jimmy Carter came into power with supermajorities in the house and senate. But he was also awful at politics and dealmaking and ended up doing nothing with those majorities. He probably couldve passed a single payer in the 70s along with other major reforms but his inability to get along with his collegaues and play the game of politics meant he actually achieved very little.

    Contrast that with LBJ who had similar majorities but LBJ was a dealmaker from his time in as Senate Majority Leader. He knew all of the major players and he knew how to cut deals to pass legislation. LBJ achieved massive programs like Medicare and Medicaid (let alone all of the civil rights legislation from the 60s).

    But electing someone with such an ambitious agenda with zero track record of legislative success (and a history of attacking the leaders of both parties) makes me think that Sanders would achieve very little and poison the Democratic Party brand in the process. Biden has all of the political relationships and legislative experience that makes me believe that he can at least get some legislation passed if Democrats can retake the Senate. And Biden is a proven commodity and that ultimately provides comfort to a lot of people who just want a return to stability and normalcy.
     
    #1488 geeimsobored, Mar 11, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
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  9. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    I’d be willing to concede the Presidency if the Republicans can take the House, will be fun.
     
  10. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    Universal healthcare was Hillary's pet project as first lady. That's the starting point ....

    If you ask me , I don't believe the Dems really wanted a single payer system when they were pushing ACA or they would have done it then , when they had the votes in the House (one Republican) and a veto proof majority in the Senate.

    Looking back , I think it was nothing but a way to extract the maximum from every American into the pockets of the insurance , healthcare industries and Pharma lobby's "wrote the bill".

    What we've seen since is costs skyrocket and not only have costs gone up , deductibles have risen as well.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2012/08/13/who-gave-us-obamacare/


    I really don't know how to solve the healthcare issue ... there just don't seem to be many solutions outside of a single payer / government run system.

    These are "for profit" businesses .... How do you limit their profits ?
     
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  11. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    They (meaning most of the Democrats) did want it. But the Democrats that were in conservative districts and in danger of losing their election did not. So while Democrats did have a majority many of them would not vote for the public option or any kind of single payer system either.
     
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  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Excellent points and I agree fully. When I criticize Sanders for only being a Democrat to run for president isn’t out of any team loyalty to Democrats but because if he wanted to get things done he should’ve been working with the party. After 2016 Sanders was in a very good position to have some major influence in the party and he did to a certain extant but because he went back to being an independent and fell back on his rhetoric or being a revolutionary he wasn’t nearly as effective as he could be. That is quite possibility a factor in how poor he’s doing and why even people like Beto ORourke are lining up to endorse his opponent. Sanders and his supporters complain about the “establishment” not supporting him and why should they. Would any of us support someone who wants the benefit of being part of our group that has been built over centuries and dominated half of US politics yet leaves when he’s not running for president and makes it a pint of his campaign to attack us?

    There is this very romantic notion of supporting the outsider and having a revolution but quite often it is the insider who knows how to work the system who has made great change. That was very true if FDR and LBJ. Sanders might never be LBJ or FDR but he certainly had the opportunity to become a major player in the Democratic Party and be part of Senate leadership. He has chosen to stay the outsider and his power and influence is waning as his revolution isn’t succeeding.
     
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  13. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    People are running from Bernie for one reason and one reason only - Economics.

    @Nook & I have been talking about this for weeks - The fact that government spending would reach 70%+ GDP.

    That's why such a flawed candidate as Biden is beating him in just about every state - since the field narrowed.

    Bernie's plans appeal to a very limited group of people - his support numbers haven't changed much at all since the others dropped out - His plateau was that 25-30% of Dems , which puts him at something approaching half that when you factor in independents and Republicans - mostly younger voters who live in some alternative economic universe.

    We'd all like to solve those issues Bernie is talking about but what he is proposing isn't reasonable. Not with a $3.5T hole in his budget every year and tax rates of 70% on literally everyone.
     
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  14. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I don’t mean this to be funny but Joe Biden should take serious quarantine steps.
     
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  15. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member

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    HA!

    How funny are you when you're trying?:):D
     
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  16. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Perhaps one of the parties get burned for nominating men in their mid to late 70’s.... with constant campaigning one or both have a shot at getting the WuHan virus... like playing Russian Roulette.

    The Democrats may want to get their VP lined up or end up with an extreme and marginal candidate in Sanders.
     
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  17. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  18. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    Single payer didnt happen in 2010 because the Democratic coalition in the House and Senate was very different from the one today. There were a lot more Southern and Rural members of Congress back then. We forget that Democrats had a majority of Congressional delegations in places like Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, West Virginia, Indiana, North Carolina, etc.. (and the at large seats in North and South Dakota). The House and Senate was substantially more conservative in 2008 than it is now.

    This time around the House is far more liberal and ready to pass something larger than the ACA and I suspect if Dems take the Senate, they'll end the filibuster and pass larger health care reform (but not a single payer). I suspect we'll see ideas like a partial Medicare expansion (which was originally in the ACA) and a larger Medicaid expansion with the option for states to turn Medicaid into a public option.
     
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  19. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    On lobbyists writing the bill: It's easy to paint the lobbyists as villains. But consider, the idea of Obamacare was to leverage the free market to bend down the cost curve with competition. That means that the industry players have to see an opportunity to make profits. It is unsurprising to me that, in writing the bill, they would engage heavily with the relevant companies and figure out an acceptable way they can make money in an individual retail market scheme. For those companies, they can see that it is in their enlightened self-interest to agree to a system that gives them normal but sustainable profits -- because if they were rapacious, someone like Bernie Sanders would get elected and devastate their industry altogether.

    And there is some evidence that the ACA has done that, bending down the curve at least if not reducing the costs on an absolute basis. From 2016: https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-obamacare-succeeding-20160621-snap-story.html. And, ACA saved us $2.3 trillion: https://www.statnews.com/2019/03/22/affordable-care-act-controls-costs/

    Given the time windows of those arguments, the effect of Trump sweeping the leg isn't reflected. If anyone has a good article on that, I'd be interested. I have this one, which qualitatively describes impacts that probably increased costs overall: https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ying-hard-to-thwart-obamacare-hows-that-going

    Now I think we're at a bit of a crossroads with this election. The appeal of the single payer appears to me to be an indication that bending the curve is an insufficient goal, and/or that the mechanisms of the ACA can't do it sufficiently well. Biden is running on keeping the faith with the ACA. Trump, of course, hasn't articulated any plan but Republicans seem to lean toward punting the whole problem to the states. Should we take the turn away from Sanders as a declaration that we think a market-based approach can still work? Because that's what Biden is going with.
     
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  20. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Yea... Joe Biden is the one we have to worry about...

     

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