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McHale & MDA to Harden what Rudy T was to Francis?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by JW86, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    This is not an overreaction, I just woke up and it hit me that maybe the same way Rudy T shaped Francis' play style - do whatever you want, take the ball and just iso to death - has now defined Harden since McHale just did the same thing with giving Harden the ball and he just exploded into a star from there. This is not about comparing Harden and Francis at all, it's about a coach who set the tone for a player which no coach can undo. JVG couldn't make Francis play smarter and now MDA allowing Harden to stop launching bad shots. I'm really wondering if McHale hands off style has done this to Harden, that since he had to carry the offensive load for so long that all the focus has gone to mastering that and he just doesn't know how to play with the mindset of defense first and just bringing that energy from the jump.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    Harden was far more well rounded under McHale...he scored from all areas of the court and in a variety of ways

    post ups, cuts, midrange stepback, pull up threes, stepback threes, spot up threes, transition...over half of his threes were assisted back then...he did it all as a scorer

    it is under MDA where he became the strictly drive or stepback three player that we know today doing an ungodly amount of ISOs...the PnR that he used to feast in is gone

    it’s not gonna change under this current setup...Morey thinks Harden is a better scorer than MJ doing what he’s doing, they are producing historic regular season offenses, and MDA is fine with all the three pointers...matter of fact, he encourages it...everyone has the green light from 3 which is why u commonly see the likes of ol’ scrub ass Gordon and House taking the dumbest of shots

    Harden goes 4-17 from three which really shouldn’t be allowed? No problem, no need to change anything or try something different after it’s become clear your 3 point shot is broken. Keep jacking them up, u will hit a respectable percentage eventually.

    I’ll never agree with your superstar player being so limited in the type of shots he takes. Harden is certainly a better player than he was in 14-15, but 14-15 is still my favorite version of him. It was also the year he played his best in the playoffs and actually increased his efficiency. He consistently showed up in big games and was super clutch.
     
  3. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    Agree with most of it, but I don't think we even have to discuss whether McHale allowed him to do whatever he wanted and just gave him the ball and said go. He even admitted that. Everything Harden has learned, mastered, is previous coaches and maybe some assistants, but I don't think you can credit McHale nor MDA for that. They allowed him to play the way he wanted and indeed under MDA it went much further, he became full-time PG and it was all ISO ball. Still, it all started under McHale that the scheme was basically let Harden do whatever he wants to create. He has had all the freedom in the world.

    Now Morey and MDA indeed have limited him and made him a lesser version of himself, all step backs and drives. I really wonder if under the right coach he could become that versatile more developed MVP we know he is and can be. I do also think even though he says the right things like after last night that it all starts with defense, he follows it up with a more telling quote and I'm paraphrasing "if those threes go in, our energy picks up, but they didn't." So he kind of admits that shots going in determines effort. I'm not sure any coach can make him truly think of defense first and regardless of shots going in, you always have to give effort. Not sure my estimation is right, just saying this is what I assume and conclude.
     
  4. rocketchamp

    rocketchamp Member

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    The issue with Harden is he the most one dimensional superstar in the history of sports. All he wants to do is score, while the team covers everything else. If he's not hitting shots, or just not interested in competing that particular game, then he's 100% a liability. He won't defend, he won't rebound, he doesn't move without the ball etc...The Rockets are essentially 4 on 5 when Harden's not feeling it


    Also, if he's having a bad game he doesn't adjust to how he's being played. It's the same dribble, dribble stepback (brick). He's the ONLY superstar this one dimensional
     
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  5. PDJACK7

    PDJACK7 Member

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    Whether it was McHale allowing it, or Harden just being Harden, the team played totally different when he was not on the floor. There was more cutting and ball movement.

    That's my real issue. When he doesn't have the ball, he does nothing else. Very little to no movement at all, standing by half court. And I wish he would get back to his mid range shot, and play off the ball more. Tired of this analytic stuff. Play damn basketball
     
  6. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    I know people really hate McHale around here. But, he really tried to get Harden to play the right way, to play team basketball. Don’t we all remember McHale constantly talking about the ball getting sticky, and always wanting to push the ball up the court? The Rockets were a different team then, but we still play better when we play fast and move the ball.
     
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  7. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

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    are we going to ignore the fact that harden lead the league in assists after mchale left? i think it's only the last year where harden has really doubled down on being one dimensional on the offensive end.

    the reality is, without PnR, james is going to HAVE to change his game. he will HAVE to move off the ball. he will HAVE to be more efficient. this is because we have westbrook and we need to maximize him in order to maximize our chances.

    it's all on james now to adapt his game or we will falter again in the post season.
     
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  8. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Rudy T knew Francis had to play iso ball cause he had weaknesses and this wouldn’t expose them

    Hardens game is much more advanced

    Analogy is wrong
     
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  9. DeBeards

    DeBeards Member

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    Most fans may envision our team and star players go like this one day:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Since most of our fans setting the bar higher than an early exit (1st rounder, 2nd rounder, even WCF)

    Needless to say, till now, PCT of this team is .639, we are standing at 5th seed (j*zz just climbed back), we are a playoff team! in addition, either our coach or our star players, are so far so good on paper.

    According to 80/20 rule, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes. The past two Ls are painful, most important of all, have had our problems exposed, and unfortunately those problems are the 20% things we had not yet fine-tuned.

    1. Mentally Immature (sometimes)
    Elite teams making good use of 82-game to study potential contenders and valuing opportunities to learn things from every single game (incl. games against low-end teams). In Knicks game, we thought the other way other than gaining something from, we showed disrespect to opponent by coasting 1-3 quarter and trying to pull away in the 4th.

    2. A Lack of Engineering Mentality
    I got no problem with MDA' quote:
    but that does not mean you should not had grabbed a plan B at your elbow while things went like this:
    MDA and team:

    Doc and team:

    Now one serious question is, if opponent like Clippers can play brilliant small ball as well as keeping taller lineup fronted us all night long and relentlessly contesting all our 3s from the parameter, what's our countermeasure?!
    A championship team works like fine-engineered instrument, coach works like the engineer, therefore a coach of a championship team should have kinda 'work ethic' much like Steve Jobs has, i.e. focusing with minimal bureaucracy and having a zero tolerance to any mistakes. we just don't have that kinda mentality to push the envelope.

    3. Losing Control (discipline-less)
    All in all, it's without any question a team should rely heavily on its star players, allowing them upmost empowerment, but end of the day it's the coach who should have a certain control (communication) of the bar no matter how high the kite in the sky (whenever/wherever).
    The old school thing never die, start everything from defense, it is particular the truth in playoff. Obviously our player don't think that way even right after the game (it's horrible!).
    Based on above mentioned 1 and 2, add up to this 3, as long as our coach got zero intervention, past two games would hilariously repeat itself in different ways over and over again either in next 21 games or even playoff scenario.

    P.S.
    you never shy away from telling truth to the one you love most (usually you family member); to your team, it's the same.
     
    #9 DeBeards, Mar 7, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2020
  10. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    horrible take just awful
     
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  11. rocketchamp

    rocketchamp Member

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    Why is it horrible? Trollin is fun until you gotta really explain your position
     
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  12. Mr. Space City

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  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Although Russ has not been a Rocket for a lengthy time.

    Russ has to make the Finals first.

    This type of Offense is it works or bust.
    The variance got little higher but the bust potential got alot worse too.
     
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  14. DeBeards

    DeBeards Member

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    Man, unless we start from those basics……problems are always looming.
    I got depressed past 4-5 days, God save me!
    [​IMG]
     
  15. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Saying that all Harden does is score and that he becomes completely disinterested when his shot isnt falling. Completely nonsense. Also the most one dimensional superstar in history....just a bunch of hyperbolic stuff.
     
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  16. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    All hope is not lost.

    We have to change directions this offseason or next.

    We should hoard draft picks instead of gifting them to other teams who will beat us in return soon.
     
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  17. DeBeards

    DeBeards Member

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    Da hope you leaves to me is ALL OVER again?!:(
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Well, Harden can still post his 40+ triple double, we'll never know. :cool: Hope dies last, breh.
     
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  19. cheshire

    cheshire Contributing Member

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    Who kidnapped this Beard? A master surgeon at work. Decisive, filthy, cerebral, the full arsenal on display. There's even a rare sighting of the mythical mid-range game.
     
  20. smoothie_king

    smoothie_king Member

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    The analogy is completely wrong and simply ironic.

    Francis sacrificed his entire career forcing the ball into yao. Yao would get the ball and simply turn over the ball to the other team.

    The only set yao ming could succesfully execute was the high post, face up jumper over the top of the defender which neutralizes the skills of steve francis completely!
     

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