1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Fascist tries to kill civilians for political beliefs/Most media ignores it

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by dachuda86, Feb 12, 2020.

  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,716
    Likes Received:
    18,915
    You seem to be so concerned about fascists making threats why not make one about fascists killing people?
     
    dachuda86 likes this.
  2. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    Mike - Doesn't care for me because he thinks I'm into violence.
    Also Mike - lists multiple fantasies about using violence.
     
  3. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    Just for you friend.
     
  4. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    56,144
    Likes Received:
    47,988
    Cheetahs are fastists.
     
    dachuda86 and FranchiseBlade like this.
  5. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2000
    Messages:
    19,212
    Likes Received:
    14,405
    Mussolini was not a fascist. He was just misunderstood.

    The trains ran on time.
     
  6. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    85,500
    Likes Received:
    83,773


    https://www.woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/Christ_for_President.htm



    Jesus was a Capricorn
    He ate organic food
    He believed in love and peace
    And never wore no shoes
    Long hair, beard and sandals
    And a funky bunch of friends
    Reckon we'd just nail him up
    If he came down again

    'Cause everybody's gotta have somebody to look down on
    Who they can feel better than at any time they please
    Someone doin' somethin' dirty decent folks can frown on
    If you can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me

    Eggheads cussing rednecks cussing
    Hippies for their hair
    Others laugh at straights who laugh at
    Freaks who laugh at squares
    Some folks hate the Whites
    Who hate the Blacks who hate the Klan
    Most of us hate anything that
    We don't understand

    'Cause everybody's gotta have somebody to look down on
    Who they can feel better than at any time they please
    Someone doin' somethin' dirty decent folks can frown on
    If you can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me
     
    #386 Buck Turgidson, Feb 23, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  7. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    Let's be like communist apologists when confronted with real examples...

    "It wasn't real fascism."
     
    #387 dachuda86, Feb 23, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
  8. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    This is to you, and largely mike aka da juice, who got me way wrong

    In retrospect that comment was kinda trolly and I wasn't trying to. I just thought it'd be a bit humorous to knock on the money changers with a silly comment... had no idea I'd get these reactions.

    Just for the record, I'm not into the evangelical stuff nor a violent person. I don't go around with a knife and group waiting for something to go down and I wouldn't watch a movie as over the top as Passion for those two reasons. Plus I have little interest in the new testament. The old testament and the stories that predate Abrahamic religions, that match, are far more interesting and insightful into our growth. But it is an interesting story in and of itself. Jesus getting violent against some peaceful money changers is really interesting. He was whipping them I think, but why didn't they fight back? Was it those flashes of old testament God justice shining through and scaring them away?
     
  9. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,902
    Likes Received:
    111,087
  10. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    48,811
    Likes Received:
    17,431
    I think what is being forgotten in your recollection is how Jesus avoided violence in that incident. He turned over the tables of the money lenders but only turned over the seats of those that sold the doves. Jesus took special care not to turn over the dove cages or tables with the doves on it in order to protect them. He avoided hurting doves which were being sold as sacrifices.
     
  11. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    I am sure you were there and that you saw him make the whip out of cords too. But just for show.
     
  12. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    48,811
    Likes Received:
    17,431
    Let's take a look at where it talks about the whip out of cords.
    You can look at many different translations of this text as well. They all spoke of driving out animals. Driving herds of animals at the time, as it does today, can involve using a whip. It was something people who were hearing the story at the time would have fully understood.

    Furthermore what Jesus says after the incident is this.
    So he didn't talk about having whipped people he talks to the people and tells them to take these things hence.

    Yes, he was passionate, and yes he let his anger show. But even in his anger and his passion he is measured taking care not to harm the doves. It isn't a person out of control. It is a person making a show to set an example and make a point.

    This makes sense using the presentation of Jesus in other sermons, bible stories, and the words of Jesus himself.

    I'm not sure where you are coming from when you mentioned that you were sure I was there? I don't know what that has to do with anything, unless you were just angry that someone else had a different reading of the texts than you did.
     
  13. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,902
    Likes Received:
    111,087
    Lou, I know you and I had this conversation several months ago, but thought you'd appreciate seeing this piece, which is perhaps closer to your perspective (as indicated in this thread) than my own:

    "Fascism Is A Nationalist Aesthetic Movement":

    https://www.outsidethebeltway.com/fascism-is-a-nationalist-aesthetic-movement/
     
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    37,716
    Likes Received:
    18,915
    Thanks for this. Yes, I think this is a very well written piece about fascism. Especially this paragraph:

     
    Os Trigonum likes this.
  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,902
    Likes Received:
    111,087
    George Will this morning on fascism.

    "The difference between Trumpism and fascism":

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...7ae76e-c208-11ea-9fdd-b7ac6b051dc8_story.html

    The difference between Trumpism and fascism

    Opinion by
    George F. Will
    Columnist
    July 10, 2020 at 7:00 a.m. EDT

    So many excitable Americans are hurling accusations of fascism, there might be more definitions of “fascism” than there are actual fascists. Fascism, one of the 20th century’s fighting faiths, has only faint echoes in 21st-century America’s political regression.

    Europe’s revolutionary tradition exalted liberty, equality and fraternity until revolutionary fascism sacrificed the first to the second and third. Fascism fancied itself as modernity armed — science translated into machines, especially airplanes, and pure energy restlessly seeking things to smash. Actually, it was a recoil against Enlightenment individualism: the idea that good societies allow reasoning, rights-bearing people to define for themselves the worthy life.

    Individualism, fascists insisted, produces a human dust of deracinated people (Nietzsche’s “the sand of humanity”), whose loneliness and purposelessness could be cured by gusts of charismatic leadership blowing them into a vibrant national-c*m-tribal collectivities. The gusts were fascist rhetoric, magnified by radio, which in its novelty was a more powerful political tool than television has ever been.

    The Enlightenment exalted freedom; fascism postulated destiny for those on “the right side of history.” Fascism was the youthful wave of the future: Mussolini was 39 when he became Italy’s youngest prime minister until then; Hitler became chancellor at 43; Franco was 43 when he ignited the 1936 military insurrection in Spain. In “Three Faces of Fascism” (1965), Ernst Nolte said that Mussolini, who “had no forerunners,” placed “fascism” in quotation marks as a neologism.

    Fascism’s celebration of unfettered leaders proclaiming “only I can fix it” entailed disparagement of “parliamentarism,” the politics of incrementalism and conciliation. “Democracy,” said Mussolini, “has deprived the life of the people of ‘style’ . . . the color, the strength, the picturesque, the unexpected, the mystical; in sum, all that counts in the life of the masses. We play the lyre on all its strings.”

    Fascism was entertainment built around rallies — e.g., those at Nuremberg — where crowds were played as passive instruments. Success manipulating the masses fed fascist leaders’ disdain for the led. Hitler described them as feminine, the ultimate fascist disparagement. Imagine the contempt a promiser feels for, say, people gulled by a promise that one nation will pay for a border wall built against it by another nation.

    Mussolini, a fervent socialist until his politics mutated into a rival collectivism, distilled fascism to this: “Everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.” The Nazi Party — the National Socialist German Workers’ Party — effected a broad expansion of socialism’s agenda: Rather than merely melding the proletariat into a battering ram to pulverize the status quo, fascism would conscript into tribal solidarity the entire nation — with exceptions.

    Fascism based national unity on shared domestic dreads — of the media as enemies of the people, of elites, or others who prevented national homogeneity and social purification. Jews were reviled as “cosmopolitans,” a precursor of today’s epithet: “globalists.”

    In the 1920s, fascism captured Italy, in which, it has been said, the poetry of the Risorgimento — national unification achieved in 1870 — was followed by “the prose of everyday existence.” Mussolini, the bare-chested, jut-jawed, stallion-mounted alpha male, promised (as Vladimir Putin today does in diminished, sour Russia) derivative masculinity for men bored by humdrum life in a bourgeois “little Italy.” “On to Ethiopia!” was Mussolini’s hollow yelp of restored Roman grandeur.

    Communism had a revolutionary doctrine; fascism was more a mood than a doctrine. It was a stance of undifferentiated truculence toward the institutions and manners of liberal democracy. “The democrats of [the newspaper] ‘Il Mondo’ want to know our program?” said Mussolini the month he came to power in 1922. “It is to break the bones of the democrats of ‘Il Mondo.’ ”

    In the 1930s, Spain acquired a bland fascism — fascism without a charismatic personification: nervous nationalism, leavened by clericalism and corruption. Spain’s golden age was four centuries past; what was recent was the 1898 humiliation of the Spanish-American War. Paunchy Francisco Franco, a human black hole negating excitement, would make Spain great again by keeping it distinct from modern Europe, distinct in pre-Enlightenment backwardness.

    Donald Trump, an envious acolyte of today’s various strongmen, appeals to those in thrall to country-music manliness: “We’re truck-driving, beer-drinking, big-chested Americans too freedom-loving to let any itsy-bitsy virus make us wear masks.” Trump, however, is a faux nationalist who disdains his nation’s golden age of international leadership and institution-building after 1945.

    Trumpism, too, is a mood masquerading as a doctrine, an entertainment genre based on contempt for its bellowing audiences. Fascism was and is more interesting.
     
  16. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    See: red fascism
     
  17. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    48,811
    Likes Received:
    17,431
    Talking more about it doesn't erase your plainly visible misunderstanding of what these terms mean. You can keep posting, but it doesn't help your case. The only thing that might help it is if you stop and people eventually forget.
     
    AleksandarN likes this.
  18. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    Aw don't be angry you can't figure out a concept.
     
  19. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2008
    Messages:
    16,308
    Likes Received:
    3,580
    Deleted for another thread
     
  20. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    72,902
    Likes Received:
    111,087

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now