1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Question for Bernie Supporters

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Two Sandwiches, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    So Sanders should be good and he should never take a paycheck again right?

    So once you get to this cutoff just stop working or sell your company but don't take any of the money?

    How does any of this make sense?
     
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,151
    Likes Received:
    35,983
    You're beating up a strawman.
     
  3. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,076
    Likes Received:
    1,464

    Um. Yes. That's the whole point.

    Plan A is to build a consensus as much as possible, make it clear who is and who isn't on your side.

    And then plan B is to take out Republicans wherever we can and/or primary right-wing Democrats where possible.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  4. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,913
    It doesn't make sense, hence why I never made the argument.

    I made the argument for an extremely progressive tax rate.
     
    Two Sandwiches and jiggyfly like this.
  5. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2002
    Messages:
    13,971
    Likes Received:
    1,700
    The system issue can never be resolved, there will always be billionaires, especially in a global market. You can only try to bring up the bottom but you can not cap the top, and you shouldn't have to.
     
  6. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    Dude everything you post is reframing the argument and if you actually read anything in this thread I admit their are huge systematic issues.

    I just don't think demonizing anybody is the solution.
     
  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    Ok we agree then.

    There is hope.:D
     
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,151
    Likes Received:
    35,983
    The implied argument here from Bernie and Warren has always been "Billionares shouldn't exist WHEN 80% of American live pay check to pay check". That has always been the argument and it has explicitly been said time and time again. Bernie and Warren have never argued to have a cut off and half always stated the conditional that they shouldn't exist when 80% are living pay check to pay check or 40% don't see a doctor regularly or whatever depressing fact of the American middle and poor class.

    If people can still become billionares with those depressing facts resolved, then so be it. That has always been the message.
     
  9. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    So because a person is stupid it exempts them from making too much money?

    How about the billionaires who give there money away to great causes?

    I definitely agree they are greedy and how much is enough but hell there are plenty of greedy people living check to check.
     
  10. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    So it's a bloodsport between Republicans and Democrats and only Bernie gets to decide the direction of this country.

    Really?

    That's ****ing scary you think this is the way to go.
     
  11. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    7,325
    Likes Received:
    9,134
    As a Bernie supporter, I saw this thread and was debating about chiming in. Then, I read a couple of pages and saw why the smart posters stayed away from this bait.

    You want detailed answers to complex questions about healthcare, tax policy, and judicial review from Clutchfans. Meanwhile, you start the debate by establishing Bernie as a "commie conspiracy nut." What intellectual level do you think this debate was going to reach from that point?

    No, what you really want is an opportunity to make straw man arguments and then dismiss Bernie supporters for not indulging you.
     
  12. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    50,145
    Likes Received:
    40,819
    Cartels and Mafias also do charitable work.

    I'm not liken these people to cartels (Although if you are spending money to promote climate denial you may as well be) but just saying donating doesn't mean much. When you are worth 40 billion what's 100k to a charity? Nothing, you earn that back in a day.

    I'd rather have the system just work for poor people rather than leaving it up to the charity of those better off. With gofundme that's where we are at, where people have to perform and beg for medical service.
     
    conquistador#11 likes this.
  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    If you are not likening those people to cartels why bring them up?

    What nefarious things are you assigning to Bloomberg and Bill Gates?

    I would rather the system work for poor people as well but it's not an either or and you are creating a strawman.

    And Bloomberg and Gates are donating much more than 100k that shows me you are being disingenuous.
     
  14. Roxfreak724

    Roxfreak724 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,076
    Likes Received:
    1,464
    I'm not sure there is another path considering the scale and severity of the crises we face, particularly the climate crisis. If the current makeup of Congress does not significantly shift in the next 5-10 years we are not going to be able to accomplish anything remotely ambitious.

    And it's not Bernie that's deciding the direction of the country, it's the movement that's propelling him to the presidency. He may be a leader of the movement but his campaign is currently just a vehicle for the combined anxieties of climate change activists, the uninsured, the poor, the indebted, the frustrated, and the vulnerable. Whether he wins the presidency or not those forces are not going away anytime soon.

    Also, it's politics, not bloodsport, get over it.
     
  15. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    Something most Bernie supporters need to realize.

    It's amazing you posted this after everything else you have posted the last couple of days.

    Why is Bernie the only one to tackle these issues and why should no one else be allowed to not agree with him?

    Or be primaried on the left?
     
  16. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,790
    Likes Received:
    111,507
    Healthcare is possible.

    17 trillion dollars for global warming..............35 trillion for the jobs program...........11 trillion dollars for other pet programs ......... AND 35 trillion for healthcare IS NOT possible.

    This is the problem I keep seeing over and over and over again with Sanders voters.

    You can possibly have MFA (if people even want it).......... but you cannot have that and all the other things he is promising. Sanders is either purposely deceiving voters with promises that he knows are not possible......... or he is so delusional that he isn't fit to be President.
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,790
    Likes Received:
    111,507
    I can tell you this.......... if you are waiting on 17 trillion dollars to be ear marked for the next 10 years to fight global warming like Sanders wants, you will be waiting a long time. That is HALF of what a MFA would cost.
     
    Two Sandwiches and joshuaao like this.
  18. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,790
    Likes Received:
    111,507
    A lot of Americans want a change, there is no question.

    Someone like Donald Trump doesn't get elected if people are happy with the status quo.

    A socialist wouldn't be leading the democrat field if people wanted the status quo.

    The question is what degree of change do people want and what do they want that change to be.
     
    Jayzers_100 and joshuaao like this.
  19. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    50,145
    Likes Received:
    40,819
    Because, you bring up donating or charity in as if it means something. It doesn't.

    So bringing up the fact that some of these people donate means nothing to me, it isn't something that in itself makes someone a good person, as proven by me bringing up that the Mafia and Cartel also do charity.

    Also, you tell me I'm being disingenuous or strawmanning when you bring up Gates or Bloomberg. I didn't bring up either of those guys.

    I brought up the Koch's who also do charity BUT at the same time do all they can to keep climate denial a thing.

    Climate Denial >>>> Any Charitable work they do.
     
  20. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    53,790
    Likes Received:
    111,507
    92% of Americans have health insurance.

    Having said that, it is far from perfect and it is obvious that changes need to be made (and will be made).

    MFA is possible financially, the rest of Sanders plan is not possible.
     
    joshuaao likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now