I just don't see Bloomberg's nuance here. Trevor Noah expresses exactly why Bloomberg's Stop and Frisk policy lacked nuance and was just surface level bs that just locked more black kids in poor neighborhoods in the system. You keep on treating people like animals, they become like animals.
I could see Pete dropping out because he knows he has a future left in politics, Biden will be gone after SC in part because he will be pressured to not help Bernie. But I agree it depends on his debate performance and nothing new coming out, I think he is at a tipping point on saying outlandish ****.
If you are a numbers guy that just looks at data and the numbers for crime are actually dropping then you don't look at the impact on the individual and the numbers say that stop and frisk worked. Now I am not excusing the policy, because the numbers can be skewed and it was discriminatory but I can see why you would continue to go with the number. My point being I don't think he racist just insensitive to the wider issues. Let's not kid ourselves most crime was occurring in minority neighborhoods but that is a whole other issue. Now you want to talk about Bernie signing on to the crime bill and use your line about treating people like animals?
So you believe the Xerox commentary is reasonable? Throw them (and only them) against the wall . . .. is reasonable? If that is the case. . .we have nothing else to discuss. You have your position . . . .. I think it is second class citizenship . .. but you think it is reasonable and ok . . . . you can have it. Rocket River
Bernie begrudgingly voted for it because some aspects of the reform were positive and he understood that his desires to treat criminal justice in the way he percieved is the best way is not at that point in history going to be approved. So he... Compromised and still expressed his major concerns over the bill.
LOL at this. So you think one guy would be better for parts of America but doesn't help you, so you don't care? Basically, I read this as you only care about yourself and won't vote unless it benefits you. I wonder if you feel white people should vote this way also. If a candidate helps black voters, but doesn't help them personally, should the white voters not support that person?
Part of the problem here is Bloomberg is very much a data-driven person. This has two issues. First, data can be misleading. If they instituted stop and frisk and crime went down, there's a temptation to see causation where it may only be correlation. We've done this a lot with crime, only realizing cause and effect years or even decades afterwards. Freakanomics had an interesting thing on this where everyone expected crime to skyrocket in the 1990s and did all sorts of tough-on-crime stuff, and then it went down and everyone thought it was working. But then when we looked later, it turned out crime was going down even in places where that stuff wasn't implemented - and they hypothesized that the 1990's were a generation after abortion was legalized. It turns out the crime drop may have been partially the result of a lot of kids predisposed to commit crimes (broken homes, poor, etc) may just never have been born so that supply of potential new criminals aging into adults just didn't exist. Controversial, to say the least, but it may have merit (there is data challenging this too). It's easy to look back and say these policies are stupid - Joe Biden and the 1994 Crime Bill are good examples. But at the time, they had much wider support, and often in large part from minority communities and leaders because they were desperate to stop high levels of crime in their own neighborhoods. Second, data isn't always PC and may cause you to stay/do stupid things. For example, his 95% Xerox quote was, in fact, at least reasonably accurate. He said: “Ninety-five percent of murders, murderers and murder victims fit one M.O. You can just take a description, Xerox it, and pass it out to all the cops. They are male, minorities, 16 to 25. That’s true in New York, that’s true in virtually every city (inaudible).” It's not accurate for other cities so he's wrong about that, but as it turned out, that was actually a true statistic in NYC (I believe the actual number was 93% or something like that). Still not a good thing to say, but that's where the data led him. As we're seeing, he has a long history of saying crazy stuff like this. We'll see if that makes him unelectable or not or if people ultimately dismiss it.
White people always vote this way IMO We have sacrificed enough . . .i am done with that Either it will be good for all of us .. . or none of us . .. Rocket River
We arrest 95% minorities. . . .and statistics show that 95% of criminals are minorities. . . . Amazing how that happens. . . . .you look for a predisposition . . .and amazingly it plays out that way Rocket River
I don't think any of it is good or reasonable but I realize its not the full measure of the man or reflects what he would do as president. Why do you ignore everything he did that's a positive? https://www.bloomberg.org/press/releases/young-mens-initiative-to-aid-young-black-and-latino-males/
So that's makes it Ok? As long as you express concern it's ok to vote for something that negatively effected a whole generation of black families? It's funny how that works. How about him voting for the NRA was that a compromise as well.
So now compromise is bad? I thought that was the criticism of Bernie? Bernie wasn't sponsoring the bill like Biden and Hillary. He just voted on it because there were definitely positive parts of the bill such as the parts for victims of sexual abuse. Voting what on the NRA? Can you provide the exact legislation?
So do you want me to keep responding to you or not? Never said compromise is bad, you and your ilk think it's is but suddenly its a virtue for Sanders on this issue, and you accuse me of gaslighting. Why does it matter who sponsored it Berny still voted for it, I guess we have to now a level for bad things. I guess you don't know about Bernie and the NRA in NH I guess you need to do some research. And I don't really care about the crime bill or the NRA I just want this Berny to go through the same purity test.
When did I ever imply compromise is bad? My ilk? The way I percieve how Bernie campaigns especially in the primaries is he expresses his ideal policy goals. That's what he is selling. He understands that when in lower he had to compromise. Him giving his ideal solutions doesn't mean he isn't willing to compromise. A large segment of Bernie supporters are not strict gun regulation activists. I personally am not either. I don't think "assault" rifle bans work. I do believe in a comprehensive background check system. But banning magazine sizes and types of rifles isn't going to lower murder rates when these things are in mass circulation anyways. Banning them will only accomplish extreme civil divide because trust me, from my experience, there are people who are really ademenent and serious about their gun rights in this country.
So you not are not gonna look up why he got an A from the NRA right? If Bernie was a compromiser why has he not gotten anything done as a senator. How many bills has he gotten passed or cosponsored?
https://projects.propublica.org/represent/members/S000033/bills-sponsored/116 You can see a list of all his sponsored bills. I can only find C- as his highest grade from the NRA.
Pre super NV/NC & SupaTuesday hot take, Bloomberg will be the only person with a chance to rival Bernie. Bernie will have a decisive lead, Bloomberg will be the only candidate within a mile of him, the rest will be cooked.
1. Watching the video not sure how Bernie came to the conclusion that he would vote yes for the crime bill if he so passionately opposed parts of it. He has said the bill did contain the violence against women act and an assault weapons ban, so he voted for it. Overall the crime bill legacy is a bit mixed, but it certainly did not help the already horrible relationship between minorities and the police. It's also important to note that Joe Biden voted for the bill so we need to make sure we hold everyone accountable. At the end of the day, it was a bad call by Bernie and he (along with the Clinton Administration) need to be held accountable for their punitive policies against minorities. 2. I believe we have had this debate in the past, Bernie is by all accounts an average legislator just based on raw number of bills (which I don't think is a good measure of a legislator but just answering your question). 3. Bernie expanded funding for the VA while working with John McCain in the Senate, 4. Bernie also voted against the Brady bill 3 times I believe (bill mandated background checks for gun purchasers and instituted a waiting period). In defense, he cited the fact that he represents a rural, pro-gun state. Even after some of the recent mass shootings in the early 2010s he still held the position that states should decide their own gun control laws and not the federal government. Obviously, pretty much all gun control advocates today disagree with those votes, and Sanders himself has reversed his position since the 2016 campaign. You can say he "evolved" but the truth is Sanders has issues that he cares about more than others. He is also a smart politician (there are some Bernie supporters who would cringe at this statement, but the dude has been in public life for 40 years, he knows how to win), and knew that gun control was not something he was going to lose his seat in Vermont over. 5. On most issues Bernie is very strong from a progressive perspective. On a couple issues he has had some missteps, but am I really gonna not vote for someone based on a few bad calls? No. He has been right far more than wrong and has demonstrated an admirable commitment to the working class of this country. He gets my vote over the rest of the field quite easily.
Where did you get those numbers and I am talking about as a senator. https://qz.com/1560188/what-the-2020-democratic-candidates-did-in-congress/ This says only 7 in the senate and 2 of them where to name P.O. Enacted Legislation Sanders was the primary sponsor of 7 bills that were enacted: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357 S. 885 (113th): A bill to designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 35 Park Street in Danville, Vermont, as the “Thaddeus Stevens Post Office”. S. 2782 (113th): A bill to amend title 36, United States Code, to improve the Federal charter for the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, and for other ... S. 893 (113th): Veterans’ Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2013 H.R. 5245 (109th): To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 1 Marble Street in Fair Haven, Vermont, as the “Matthew Lyon Post Office Building”. H.J.Res. 129 (104th): Granting the consent of Congress to the Vermont-New Hampshire Interstate Public Water Supply Compact. H.R. 1353 (102nd): Entitled the “Taconic Mountains Protection Act of 1991”. H.J.Res. 132 (102nd): To designate March 4, 1991, as “Vermont Bicentennial Day”. View All »
