Connecticut Girl Track Athletes Fighting To Get Transgenders Off Their Track

Yeah I guess.

I'm just throwing it out there.

Possible solutions to this issue are:

1) Have people compete as the gender they identify
2) Have separate leagues for males, females, m2f trans, f2m trans
3) Have everyone compete together

Seems like options 1 and 3 would be easier than option 2. Option 3 probably also the cheapest.

To be clear, I'm just talking about how to organize public school sports. Private leagues will of course specialize if there is a demand for it.

Anyway, this is a messy issue. There will be no clean solution that appeases everyone.

 

Who's "these people"? Pretty much every poster here understands that the complaints the women atheletes have are legitimate. They also believe the trans atheletes have a case to. It's a grey area. I lean towards a solution that has biological men transgender athletes to play in men's leagues and the onus is on the men's leagues to create an environment where they feel accepted.

But man you spend too much time on YouTube. "They"? Elaborate on what specific people you are referring to and no, random Twitter accounts don't count.

 

The other solution you aren't mentioning is men's leagues creating a environment where biological male transgender athletes feel welcomed and not ostracized.

I think that is the solution that does the least damage. There is no perfect "good" solution. I think this is the least bad one to a very difficult problem for those involved.

 

Yep, that's an option too.

 

Perhaps not, but it should settle when transgender females should be allowed to compete as women. This has actually already been researched and solved for.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...nsitions-alter-athletic-performance-including

Of course the truth disagrees with @Roscoe Arbuckle hate for transgender people so he'd rather make personal attacks.

 

Pretty much every biological female in existence would need to use steroids to obtain that amount of muscle mass.

 

Not sure what that photo has to do with the article. That athlete probably hasn't undergone transition.

 

"Harper's study included only a few transgender women, Eric Vilain of The George Washington University in Washington, D.C."

This is at the level of "hypothesis" in the scientific method. Repeatable tests haven't been done and peers haven't confirmed it.

She tested three transgender athletes. Three.

The solution to me is make men's leagues a comfortable environment where birth male transgender athletes feel accepted.

Also, since transgender athletes are well... athletes, they tend to do things like weight training which will boost their testosterone levels back up.

 

The picture you posted is also of someone who is much older and only transitioned a few years back. You are right the sample size is small. But the IOC has rules in place to ensure fair competition.

Certainly more research needs to be done, but those athletes who have transitioned especially at a younger age and never had a large amount of muscle mass should be allowed to compete as women.

If someone transitioned when they were young they are not going to be able to compete in a men's league at all.

 

I am speaking specifically about pre-adults as this is what the thread was about in my opinion - a high school athlete. I don't think there is an ethical issue about a 13 year old undergoing hormone therapy to delay the onset of puberty and buy them time to decide.

 

The only thing that suprsesses male muscle growth patterns is hormone therapy through medication. Medication can only supress hormones such as testosterone. The medication just sends a chemical signal to supress it I guess in my layman's terms.

But unfortunately there are activities that people do that can unsupress it such as weight training which as an athlete in majority of sports you are expected to do some sort of intense workout regime. Which means biological males even with hormone therapy at a young age will still always have an advantage in growing muscle faster and larger.

Hey, maybe the technology will be the there were they improve the suppression hormones and activation of others where that won't be a problem anymore and maybe in that time we can transition transgender athletes into women's sports but then again the other problem arises of "at what age is it too young to trust a kid's judgement on permanent life decisions".

Hey, maybe there will be a time centuries from now assuming if the current human civilization still exists and progress is made instead of regression, then maybe a new human type can be formed where they can change their gender multiple times through their lives at their own discretion. I'm pretty sure there is an anime for that.

 

Do you have a source for this claim

 

For once we're in 100% agreement ....

Kinda reminds me of Fallon Fox - a transgender MMA fighter ....

They still have a male frame and all the muscle / connective tissue that comes along with being male , even post transition. Bone density , ligaments , tendons are just bigger & stronger in the male human animal.
Then consider that they don't have to deal with the inner workings of the female anatomy once a month ...

Instead of these people playing with the boys or girls .... maybe they need their own class / division where they compete with people of similar circumstances. No , its not inclusive but its fair physically to everyone involved. They are somewhere between a man and a woman physically .... cant compete with the men and women are at a disadvantage competing with them.

 

This is remind me of KLM airline flight attendants

 

That's pretty much where I stand on it.

Compete with the men is the most practical solution here and now. I don't think different trans competitions is viable cost-wise, paying for sports is pretty expensive for schools, and for pro sports I mean...plent of women leagues fail financially, I don't think anyone is going to watch all trans sports.

Also yeah, most people, even the most staunch trans supporters (AKA, me) are against this. I'm of course completely fine with people doing whatever they want with their body and identifying as whatever they want...as long as they don't harm anyone else...and this clearly harms women.

I think Joe Rogan has the most effective argument against it, if you're for transgender athletes in female sports than are you for it for MMA and Boxing?

 

I wish one of those boys would make me a sandwich.

 

That's kinda my point. If youre already a high school senior that was male for 16 years then that's still 3 years of puberty you have to your advantage.

I do think its an ethical issue with the 13 year old kids , even in the situation you described , hormones to delay the decision. Im not a doctor , i dont think you are either ( feel free to correct me if youre wrong) , in my unprofessional opinion, hormones are some of the trickier things about the human body .... fixing a person's hormone problem ( in the case of a disorder) is a lot harder than say , fixing an arm. My point being , there could be serious long term consequences for "delaying the onest of puberty" ..... and how long do you give them the time to decide ? as long as it takes ?

Im not a teenager anymore, but alot of my career has been working with youth . Ive taught some of the smartest 8th and 9th graders in the country .... they are still kids man. When you let a 13 year old make a major life decision like that , especially in the name of being able to compete in sports its kinda crazy to me ( but even if its not , its still a bridge too far ) .

 

Here's another proposal for dealing with this problem. Maybe a solution for the future, don't see it happening in the short term:

 

A13 year old isn’t transitioning to compete in sports. They do it because they identify with a different gender and if they don’t delay puberty it will have negative consequences on their life. I know you don’t believe transgenderism is real and that’s why you think the way you do but for someone whose mental sexual identity doesn’t match their biological one they deserve a chance at happiness.

 

Bro , you’re putting words into my mouth.

What makes you think I don’t believe transgenderism is real ? I just think that most 13 year olds should wait a couple of years before making huge life decisions .

We can’t prevent all “negative consequences” on life .

This whole thread is in context to sports. It’s clear that there’s some confusion about how to include trans athletes in competitive sports. And once you dive into the topic , there are several sides and angles you have to consider.

It just doesn’t seem to me that competing as your chosen sex is a solution that will keep a fair playing field for many circumstances. The gap in performance may not be as noticeable at the high school level as it is in professional spots , but there’s still a gap. And when we try to talk about situations where there’s not a gap the kid would have to transition early or do some delayed onset thing (that I’ve never heard of and can’t imagine does not come without consequences)

Anyways I don’t understand why you think my discomfort with 13 year olds making these types of decisions is somehow an attack on transgender people