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[OFFICIAL] Bernie Sanders for President thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Clinton thought Obama supporters were sexist also. Pulling the exact same card.
     
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  2. HTM

    HTM Member

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    People such as yourself have a fundamental misunderstanding about "free" public college in Europe. It's "free" or subsidized to a certain degree but it's also heavily rationed.

    In Europe, college is free/modestly priced but that comes at a different cost. That cost is limited access to higher education. To qualify/be admitted to these "free" colleges/programs you must go through a rigorous series of tests and meet very high academic standards at a young age (14-17).

    It's not, "Oh, hey, I'm European let me walk up to my local university and study whatever I want for free" - It's "Oh, hey, if you're in the top 25% of your class and do well on rigorous qualifying national exams you can attend university and study what you have pre-qualified for when you were 16, if not, you are effectively barred from every being a member of the professional class/university educated person"

    This is a pretty decent write up on it.

    https://mises.org/wire/countries-free-tuition-often-have-fewer-college-graduates

    As Claire Lundberg at Slate has described it:

    The problem here [from the student's perspective] isn’t with the cost of the education, but with the huge amount of tracking, testing, and winnowing that is used to help keep the system free. In America, virtually anyone can get a college education so long as they have the money to pay for it. In France, you can get an excellent, free or nearly-free education but often only if you follow a prescribed set of rules and pass a series of grueling tests that often start early in high school.

    French teenagers go through their first major career sorting at around age 15, when they decide on an academic or vocational course of study. This choice determines what kind of high-school graduation exam, or baccalauréat, the student will sit for, and to some extent what kind of higher education is open to them. The choice of track is also not entirely up to the students; the head of their lycée, or high school, has the final say. There’s some ability to change tracks, but it’s not particularly easy.
     
  3. dmoneybangbang

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    Speaking for myself, I believe that we need the government to provide a better "societal floor" and I think Bernie goes too far, too fast.
     
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  4. dmoneybangbang

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    To put it concisely, incrementalism.
     
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  5. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    That is all Hillary has got.

    I am more saddened to see Warren perhaps decide that is about all she's got, too.
     
    Two Sandwiches likes this.
  6. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    And everyone seems to have a different definition of that societal floor .... everyone wants "Their Floor" raised.
     
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  7. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    To be honest that's not "the extreme".

    When I ran my own business and paid out of pocket for the family healthcare plan , it was in line with that.

    Employer subsidized HC is significantly cheaper than individual plans / out of pocket.

    Small business owners and individuals really take a screwing on this.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  8. Major

    Major Member

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    Bernie Bros aren't sexist. They go after Pete, Biden, and everyone else with equal disdain. They just lash out at anyone-but-Bernie.
     
  9. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I admit to not knowing much about different countries systems. I have travelled to about 30 countries over the last 15 years and have stayed at enough hostels (hotels too) and met tons of cool people (no surprise they ALL speak English except for a few Chinese travelers I have come across) and the subject would come up from time to time.

    Myself I haven't thought much about it but I assumed if you were getting public tuition free or heavily subsidized that you would have to have of course some type of entrance exams. But more importantly maintaining a good GPA in actual University as you proceed towards a degree.
     
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  10. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    Yes that's exactly what you are saying and doing. Debate semantics, urgency, details, while the problems get worse are even harder to deal with. Discrediting potential solutions while offering no alternatives. **** gets old fast...
     
  11. HTM

    HTM Member

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    I think a lot folks who are in for “free” college kinda assume everything will stay the way it is but just be free. I think they think thats how it is in Europe. That shows a lack of nuance. It’s certainly more complicated then that.

    Branching into the sadness/flaws of the American education system:

    Americas college participation rate is very high. Something like 70% of kids graduating today are going to college. Most people can attend college because the federal government supplies them with loans to do so.

    Unfortunately, for many, that’s really not a good financial decision. There are legions of schools who’s degrees aren’t marketable, pretty much every for profit degree as far as I can tell, and many other low tier schools. These institutions still charge a lot of money. Kids then graduate and aren’t able to monetize their education because employers don’t value those degrees or the degrees themselves don’t provide a skillset employers are looking for.

    Its sad but people think “I need to go to college thats the route to the American dream, that’s what adults have always told me” and I think there is a lot of gamblers fallacy. “Maybe it didn’t work out for others but taking all these student loans will work out for me” and it doesn’t. Young people get trapped with large balances and a degree they cannot monetize or worse no degree at all. Even modest amount can be crippling. $15,000 student loans might not sound like a lot but it’s devastating when you make $11 an hour.

    It’s a really sad trap people fall into who aren’t getting good advice.
     
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  12. Two Sandwiches

    Two Sandwiches Contributing Member

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    My question is what happens to those that want to go back to school or further their education? Is it dependent upon your previous GPA? Do you pay full price? Will tuition costs raise for those people? Because on a lot of cases, tuition costs are keeping some of them from furthering their degrees...
     
  13. TheresTheDagger

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    Hillary gonna Hillary.

    I chuckle every time someone questions how I could DARE vote for Trump in 2016.

    Cause I would do ANYTHING to avoid her in office. My guess is some folks in this very thread that dislike her can't say the same about their 2016 vote.
     
  14. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Yeah. Just like a LOT of things in life it is complicated. Hopefully in a 1000 years or so everything will get figured out. Utopia abounds.
     
    HTM likes this.
  15. Buck Turgidson

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    Has anyone ever seen Bernie Sanders and @glynch in the same room? This is uncanny.
     
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  16. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    Would be wonderful .... but just not reality. Not the way Humans are wired.

    There will always be Caste's (oversimplification) and they will always be difficult to escape, We'll always have the top , the bottom and the middle ... Its just how humans are wired.
     
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  17. dmoneybangbang

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    Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. It doesn’t sound like you checked my posting history for solutions....
     
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  18. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Great answer and things that nobody talks about.
     
  19. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Way to drop some knowledge.

    This is the way i thought it was but was not sure that's how everyone does it.

    It really shows how much these Bernie supporters actually know about how these European systems work.
     
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  20. ipaman

    ipaman Contributing Member

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    check your post history lol
     

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