Interesting, and I'd like to believe that...I do think Cora, while fired, gets the same or even harsher punishment than AJ. Also, I do believe the Mets will part ways with Beltran as well. Regardless of all of this, Houston still has a world series title, and I'm ok with it. and I agree with this, as they say, if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying! #stealitback
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id...ealing-scandal-astros-tarnished-rep-knew-more Many, as you might imagine, have thoughts. ESPN spoke to more than 15 executives, coaches, scouts and players about key topics surrounding the Astros' cheating scandal -- from the stiffness of the penalties to the perceptions of wrongdoing to potential ways to prevent it. Opinions were provided under the condition of anonymity because MLB asked its personnel not to comment. The 2020 Astros were not hurt nearly enough A longtime executive went through the penalties to illustrate how the Astros were not necessarily harmed in a big-picture sense. • A $5 million fine? Chump change for a team that profited far more than that by winning the World Series, and something that probably pales in comparison to not having to pay Hinch and general manager Jeff Luhnow during their season-long suspensions. • The loss of a first- and second-round pick in the 2020 and 2021 drafts? Successful teams pick later, which lessens the value of their picks, and they're constantly giving up future assets for immediate returns. The longtime exec called those draft picks "a liquidated cost," and a veteran scout stated the organization "should have been hammered" internationally -- an area where the Astros were not penalized whatsoever. • The biggest blow, it seems, comes from the suspensions of Luhnow and Hinch, the two foundational pieces in the Astros' resurgence. Both were subsequently fired by owner Jim Crane, who must find a new GM and manager with only weeks remaining until spring training. But the Astros can simply replace them internally, with bench coach Joe Espada expected to be the new manager and assistant GM Pete Putila probably handling most of the baseball-operations work moving forward. Firing Luhnow and Hinch grants the Astros "a clean slate," the executive said -- a benefit for Crane, given the fallout. "In one sense, it was on the lighter side because the commish was clear and then they broke the rules some more," another executive told ESPN." So this was the least they could do. If this was isolated, maybe it's not so bad. But they were brazen in breaking the rules." Isn't a tarnished reputation enough? That's the question a longtime manager posed when asked if the penalties were enough to serve as a deterrent for other teams, making the point that Luhnow and Hinch could struggle to work in baseball again and might never hold such high-profile positions. "At the end of the day," the source said, "all we have in this game is our reputation." A front-office executive agreed, calling the punishments "stiff" while saying: "I would be surprised if anyone else would want to jeopardize their livelihoods and reputations." But some players presented an interesting scenario: If you were to go back in time and tell Crane that he would win the World Series, but then have to suffer through the fallout of this scandal -- the fine, the loss of draft picks, the suspensions and subsequent firings of his two most important employees, the public smearing for unethical practices -- would he take that deal? The players, emphatically, believe that he would. And that brings us to another point: The position players who used the system and potentially reaped the benefits were unharmed. "It's hard for me not to look at my own numbers against them and be pissed," a retired major league pitcher said. "Everyone involved deserves to be seriously punished because it's wrong." What did opposing players know or suspect of the Astros cheating? It was a pretty open secret among rival players that the Astros were stealing signs in some fashion, but no one ESPN spoke with knew to what extent they were doing it. "I faced Carlos Beltran in 2017," one pitcher said. "I actually went back and looked at the AB. I knew it could be the last time I might pitch against him and I wanted to get him out. He was always such a hard out. I got ahead 0-2, then he laid off four straight pitches. I couldn't believe it. When I went back to watch it, I heard the banging. I just figured I was tipping or whatever. No one knew to what extent they were doing it, but we all suspected something." Some players said suspicions about the Astros illegally stealing signs were a constant topic of conversation coming in and out of series in Houston dating as far back as 2016. Grievances were filed, one player said, and baseball did not act until the issue reached the public. But multiple pitchers also put the onus on themselves, assuming they were tipping their pitches or, at worst, the Astros had an elaborate -- but legal -- process of stealing and relaying signs. They definitely wondered how the Astros were winning the battle when the bases were open (meaning no runner on second base). "MLB knew teams were up to something more than I think I even realize because why else would these employees be sitting with us monitoring all this stuff and then putting the clubhouse TVs on eight-second delays," one pitcher said. "That's where I figured the stealing was coming from. I guess I wasn't that far off. TVs were used." 2017 World Series, Game 4 A longtime scout cited Game 4 of the 2017 World Series from Minute Maid Park to prove a point about the Astros' sign-stealing chicanery. Dodgers starting pitcher Alex Wood performed well, giving up only one run and one hit over the course of 5⅔ innings -- but his process was telling. That night, Wood and his catcher, Austin Barnes, switched their sequence every eight pitches or so out of paranoia that the Astros were stealing the signs, the scout said. Earlier this offseason, in the wake of Mike Fiers' public comments about the Astros' illegal sign-stealing, Wood told The Athletic that he had "heard whispers of some of the shady stuff they'd been doing" and thus accounted for them -- though he did not realize the extent of them. The Astros went 8-1 at home while on their way to a championship that October, winning every postseason game except the one against Wood. The seven other starting pitchers who faced the Astros at Minute Maid Park that month -- names such as Chris Sale, Masahiro Tanaka, CC Sabathia, Yu Darvish and Clayton Kershaw -- gave up a combined 28 runs in 31⅓ innings. The scout also recalled a handful of ugly swings and misses by some of the Astros' stars during that postseason, when the bat path was nowhere near the pitch's trajectory. Strangely, this also provided him with confirmation. "Good hitters don't miss pitches like that," the scout said, "unless they think they are getting something hard and they get spin instead."
the entire baseball fan base and media can't wait to take a giant **** on the astros and now astros "fans" do the same instead of having their team's back. turn in your fan card, you don't deserve it. me... i own 6 different Astros shirts/jerseys and several hats, i'm busting them all out this week each and every day with pride!
TIL sign stealing and bad swings started in 2017. i guess this author & player never saw hof'er biggio chase a slider low and away
No, you have that wrong. The Astros took a giant **** on the fans, by taking cheating to a whole new level. It taints our team, regardless of how much it actually made a difference. It's like how people view the Patriots. I am just disappointed in our players for cheating to get an edge. I will never agree with that strategy. I thought they were better than that.
You do you. Your fandom isn’t better than anyone else’s just because you want to defend a choice that cost the team it’s reputation and jobs. OJ has plenty people cheering him on too
Cannot be overstated: **** YOU MIKE FIERS you hypocritical backstabbing snitch An entire fanbase is now suffering because of you, Mr. Pinetar
Nope. Minute Maid is only 20 mins from my house. I was born and bred in H-Town and no matter how much you think your better than me as a fan you’re not. Crane seems to agree with me that cheating is bad and **** canned those who wouldn’t step up to stop it
Many people cheat through life starting in Elementary School. I doubt you or I get any of those fans to understand why we disapprove of cheating to get an edge.
Actions speak louder than words. You think he's on the verse of tears and apologizing to fans in a letter because it's a clean win or maybe because it's caused severe damage to the franchise's reputation.
Every fan should react how ever they want to this but we as a fan base have to face that this is forever. As long as any of us our here on this earth the reality is the team cheated and they'll never be able repair the damage they did to the Astros 2017 championship, ever. Has anyone heard the lifelong fans breaking down on the radio.....the city and most of the fans are crushed by this. The city was already beat into the ground with failure. Epic unbelievable failure and bad luck. I'm 50 and since I was 5 years old I've been a fan. 45 years. It hurts, it hurts like no other and I'm pissed about it but I'll still be a fan of the team but not only did they cheat the other teams but they cheated the Astro fans. How selfish could they be to not think about the reverberation this woud have if they were caught. Even if they didnt get caught have some diginity for ****s sake. Say what you want but that 2017 championship will never be looked at as "fully" legit now and the media will make sure of it no matter what Astro fans or Crane says. I won't disown it or the team but the pride in it is questionable at best. Time to move on and try and win a WS on the up and up.
